Anna Rathmann
Executive Director, Jane Goodall Institute
Hope is a choice. You can look at the circumstances that are in front of you, and still be hopeful, and I absolutely am.
Summary
This week, Alan was joined by a leading conservation executive and environmental stewardship advocate, Anna Rathmann. Anna is the Executive Director of the Jane Goodall Institute.
During their discussion, the two delve into Anna’s history of leadership in ecological protection and working with some of the world’s leading conservation organizations. Anna has been instrumental in the process of actualizing the mission of legendary primatologist, Jane Goodall. Anna also shared some of the lessons she has learned from their mutual friend, Jane Goodall, and what’s next for the Jane Goodall Institute.
Mentions & Resources in this Episode
Guest Bio
Anna Rathmann is the Executive Director of the Jane Goodall Institute USA. Her experience working with organizations in the international conservation community led her to her current role with JGI as a natural next step in a career focused on bridging science, conservation, education, and storytelling.
Anna holds an MBA from Georgetown University’s McDonough School of Business in Washington, DC and is a graduate of Valparaiso University, and she currently sits on several nonprofit boards that promote engaging with conservation at all levels of community. Prior to her role at JGI, Anna served as the Director of the Great Plains Conservation Foundation throughout Africa and in several roles at National Geographic. She remains focused on initiatives that serve to protect our amazing planet thought research, conservation, exploration, and education.
Episode Transcript
Alan Fleischmann
I'm joined today by a truly inspiring leader in conservation efforts, and a good friend, Anna Rathmann. Anna is the Executive Director of the Jane Goodall Institute, where she has championed efforts around the world for habitat protection, wildlife preservation and maintaining the well being of our natural world. Anna has almost two decades of experience and leadership at some of the foremost institutions for environmental stewardship, and ecological protection. Now, as a leader of the forward-thinking Jane Goodall Institute, she works alongside its legendary founder and my dear friend, Jane Goodall. I’m excited to have Anna on the show today to discuss her fascinating background, her incredible career journey, and the lessons in leadership she has learned along the way. Anna it is such a pleasure to have you on the show.
Anna Rathmann
Well, thank you, Alan, it's such a pleasure to be here. It's an honor and I'm really looking forward to this conversation.
Alan Fleischmann
Me too, I’ve been wanting this for a long time. Let's start a little bit with the early life. You were born and raised in Northern California. What was life like growing up in the house? That's a little bit about your mom and dad, siblings, family dynamics, things like that?
Anna Rathmann
Yeah, well, first of all, you know, Northern California is a magical place. So I feel really fortunate to have spent some formative years in such a beautiful natural beauty. And, and it's really, it's a special place. So I grew up in a family that was extremely supportive. And that's something that now as life goes on, and you get older, and you meet more people, and you see more dynamics in life, I'm grateful for, and I just recognize what a gift that was, or is continues to be.
I grew up in a large extended family. And so learning the dynamics of navigating through complicated relationships with aunts, and uncles, and in laws and outlaws, and all of the cousins and that sort of thing, it really teaches you a lot about life, and also about the meaning of loyalty, and representing something larger than yourself. And when you have a name, when you have a family, when you are being encouraged to to be a part of that, and an active member in that family, you are representing more than just the individual. And that was something that I'm really grateful for my family and love them dearly. It's a family too, that really enjoyed being outside. And I have several family representatives who were instrumental in that, and getting us outside. My brother and I spent a lot of time in the out of doors, there was a river behind our house and, and the number of hours that we spent out there turning over rocks and playing in the river was really pretty great.
Alan Fleischmann
But then you were really in the countryside?
Anna Rathmann
Well, you know, it was countryside, adjacent, we were there was a beautiful river with a nature preserve that was behind us. And so there would be like the salmon, there would be a salmon run that would come up in the fall. And so there would be fishermen out there and you'd see the salmon coming up to spawn and, and it was just beautiful. And there's something you know, that metaphor of a river and “A River Runs Through” that metaphor was really kind of pivotal. And, yeah, there's a lot there. But then also because we're talking about leadership, and I can't, I can't say enough, how much I learned from sports.
I was a jock. And I was that kid who I benefited a lot from team sports. I always played team sports, not at a particularly high level, I never got that final growth spurt. But it's almost almost if I had only gained that extra 12 inches I could have been but you know, playing being a part of something were in those formative years, where the success of someone else depends on you, and how you show up and how you contribute, and whether that's in on a sport field or in a musical setting as a band or an orchestra or in a theater setting. You know if you forget your lines or if you hit the wrong note or if you miss that pass other people's success depends on you. And those were big lessons. So growing up I point to that as another formative experience.
Alan Fleischmann
I love that. I love that I love analogies that the conductor-composer analogy, the metaphors from sports. And even though that kind of shows the individual’s skill and talent, but you're in this greater team, you know that, you know, you may be the best challenge by you looking for the symphony, you know, this idea of sports that you may be the greatest athlete, but you're looking for your teammates. Yeah, that's very cool.
And what did your parents do?
Anna Rathmann
my parents, I grew up in a household with two lawyers, I had both my parents were lawyers. And so there was a lot of discussion and debate that happened, there would be, you know, time off for good arguments, and anything could be negotiated as long as there were solid arguments behind it.
Alan Fleischmann
So the dinner table conversations were rich?
Anna Rathmann
very rich and encouraged, encouraged to be rich, I loved that, you know, poking holes in each other's arguments and, and requiring you to really define what it is that you mean, to be articulate. Well, if you believe this, then do you believe that? Those kinds of dialogues, oh, my gosh, it was amazing. And again, these are the things that when you're growing up, you don't really realize it's like, you know, okay, enough, why do I have to give you this like, five point argument about why I should be able to go get ice cream with my friends, but…
Alan Fleischmann
But it's helpful training, and it is helpful in life?
Anna Rathmann
Yeah.
Alan Fleischmann
Well, I know that you credited some of your fondest memories, the earliest memories, even of nature, your love of nature, were the visitors to America's national parks, when you were a kid with your family, tell us a little bit about those trips and how they influenced your journey.
Anna Rathmnn
100%. So we were a family, and I really credit my mom for this, but my dad absolutely would go down these rabbit holes with a brown sign. We were a brown sign kind of family, we did a lot of road trips. And if there was one of those brown signs, you know, a point of interest, we were pulling over. And we were going to learn what was interesting about that little piece of highway, and it was wonderful. And so that, of course, led us to a lot of national parks, national parks have always centered. They were very prominent in my childhood and being out in California, and in the West, in general, there's so many of these iconic parks. And so that was something that was a huge part of my growing up. Spending time in Yosemite. Grand Canyon. Yellowstone was a central figure in my childhood as well. And so that was a place of inspiration. It was a place of sanctuary, it was a place of learning of curiosity. You know, the national park system within the United States is a really, really extraordinary aspect.
Alan Fleischmann
Do you have a favorite National Park?
Anna Rathmann
Oh, gosh, I mean, that's like asking to choose between, you know, your children. I will say Yellowstone features very prominently, because it was one of my first national parks that we went to. We actually had an opportunity when I was a child to live out there for a short time, while there was some work that my dad was doing around that area. And so, you know, that was a very special place, and then featured prominently later in my life as well.
Alan Fleischmann
I know we’ll get to that too! You went on to attend college. I mean, I guess I should ask you: Was there any great mentor influencer in high school, you know, they kind of played a role? You know, I always want to remember the teachers, the one who looks across the table one day and says, You've got something special. You know, at my house, we have in our library a photograph of a teacher of mine, who changed the trajectory of my life, because he cared. And I just wanted to ask, was there a teacher or two that inspired you or redirected you or encouraged you, beyond your parents? So I think it sounds like your parents were huge mentors in that regard as well.
Anna Rathmann
My parents, but my aunts and uncles, I can't leave them out either. So it really is, this constellation of extended family of whom I am a product of the teacher that comes to mind with that question. I've again been fortunate to have had many teachers and your teachers who you turn something in and they say you can do better lets you know teachers who encourage you who it's not just a transactional, but really inspiring. But the one that comes to mind as you ask that question was a coach and his name is Coach Smith. And Coach Smith, just to give context here. Coach Smith was the varsity football coach. And so you know, high school varsity football coach, he's dealing with that with the big program with the big guys.
And as the story goes, in one of the faculty meetings there, they were meeting about assigning coaches for the basketball program. And they didn't have a basketball coach, for the girls, freshman basketball team, nobody raised their hand, they couldn't get anybody to do it. And here, you got these eager athletes wanting to, to form a team, and there's no one. And Coach Smith took it on. And he said, Well, if nobody's going to do it, I'm not going to disappoint these athletes, I'm going to do it. And he had never coached basketball before. He had never coached a girls sport before. And we became such a special kind of team for him. And Coach Smith was the kind of coach where he, you know, he just taught you what it meant to work hard, what it meant to see your your teammates, what it meant to show up what it meant to, when no one else was raising their hands, you raise your hand and you take that on, and you don't let each other down. And that was a really, really strong, strong message. And he did it with kindness. And he did it with strength. And it was really, really an amazing, amazing person for me and many others whose lives you touch.
Alan Fleischmann
I love that. Also the part of that raising your hand to you know, to volunteer yourself.
Anna Rathmann
Yeah, I'll do it. Fine. No one else? Fine, I’ll do it.
Alan Fleischmann
Too many people waiting to be asked. That doesn't always work. That's great. So you went on to attend college at Valparaiso University in Indiana. Tell us a little bit about your decision to take there. And what did you major in and what were your studies like? Any mentors or experiences that left a lasting impression? Knowing you, I bet many did. There are many experiences. But did you like college? Was it a great thing to do? Was it a: “I'm glad it's over when it was over” thing?
Anna Rathmann
No, no, no, it was wonderful. It was absolutely wonderful. It's a big change. So coming from Northern California, when I was a little bit of a fish out of water. In fact, I remember Valparaiso is in Northwestern Indiana. So it's in the Midwest. And showing up that first winter, I had no warm clothes. And the extent of my kind of winter wardrobe was very meager. And so here you are getting lake effect snow coming off of Lake Michigan and those cold blasts of wind coming out of the Midwest. And I was very much ill prepared for that. But it was a wonderful experience. Valpo is a relatively small school. And what I think I really benefited from there was the individuality of the teaching where professors really took an interest in their students. It was a small professor to student ratio. And that was wonderful. That was absolutely wonderful. To be able to ask questions of individuals who are experts in their field, to understand things and have dialogue around them. One of my professors would famously always say: “Okay, spin that out. Let me hear more about that.” You know, I like that. And it was a wonderful, wonderful experience. I made friends that have stayed near and dear throughout that whole experience. And it was extraordinary.
Alan Fleischmann
Love that. During your summers in college, you served as a seasonal park ranger. And at your favorite park, Yellowstone. How did that happen? And obviously that did impact your career trajectory. No question.
Anna Rathmann
Oh, one hundred percent. Yeah, so here's Yellowstone back in my life again. It was a wonderful opportunity. And I had just turned of age where I'd spent a couple of summers doing some volunteer work in Yellowstone, leading up to that, but you couldn't join the park service until you were a certain age. And so here I was now able to do it. I got the uniform, got the badge and the hat and I was a representative of something much larger than myself. And again, that theme of representing something larger than yourself came back when you put on that uniform. You are the embodiment of the National Park Service and so you're going to be getting Questions everything from where's the nearest restroom to can you talk to me about the geomorphology of the area and the composition of this you know hotpot with with the mud in it as well or, you know, animal ecology. And it was just wonderful.
One of my main tasks was to rotate through things. The station where I lived was at the south entrance, which is just north of Teton. And there was a pack station there. So it was one of the ranger stations where we live that had a corral and it had horses. And some of my fellow Rangers were growing up on horse ranches in Montana. And just to see the way in which they engaged with these strong big animals and understood them and, and learning it's, it's a lot about what Jane talks about, too. But this was an early in early exposure to it, when we'd be creating a pack train of horses that would then be carrying gear into the backcountry. You had to do it in a certain sequence because of course, there would be the leader horse and well, the leader horse has to have so and so behind it, and, and so the Rangers the horse Rangers had to really know the personalities and understand the dynamics of those animals. And that was a really, really interesting exposure.
I've also worked, you know, I was one of those faces that when you walked in, or not walked in, when you drove into the park, I would welcome you there. And I can remember at the end of my shift my cheeks, oh my gosh, my cheeks would hurt from smiling for eight hours, because every person who comes in, you have to greet them as though, you know, this is so exciting. Yes. It's so exciting. And you, I tried to never lose perspective of that. So by the 200th car, I tried to greet them with that same enthusiasm of, you know, gosh, we're happy to have you here.
Alan Fleischmann
I love that. And you want everyone to have this extraordinary experience that you can only get. It is one of the great parts of being in America that you don't actually know until you've seen it. Which is also amazing. I've heard you talk about your time at the parks service. So clearly, there's elements of that experience that still hold true today. I mean being you exude this ambassadorship personality where you know, you're representing a movement, you're representing an individual and iconic individual. I have said that about you, I have been a board member of the Jane Goodall Institute, with the Legacy Foundation, the Leadership Council, I've been in Jane’s world for a long time, having people come and go in leadership positions, because it's really hard.
You're the first person. And I've said this to you. And I've said it to lots of people who could go into a room. And with your humility, your confidence, your purpose, you are able to actually be the best sub or the best partner today. And that's hard. That's very hard. But we'll get to that in a minute but when I think about these moments of your youth, where you were actually playing that role of ambassador, we knew you would be a partner to represent in many ways. It doesn't shock me. It doesn't shock me at all.
So after university, you joined the National Geographic Society as a Major Gifts Coordinator. Tell us a little bit about National Geographic and your experience there. I know that you were there for a while. Right, you rose through the ranks there as well. So tell us a little bit about that journey.
Anna Rathmann
Oh my gosh, yeah. Well, let me say let me say one thing, first of all, my goodness, thank you so much for those kind words. There will never be another Jane Goodall. She is truly an extraordinary, extraordinary example of breaking the mold. And it's such an honor to represent her in settings and the good work that she has inspired and my colleagues carry on. So thank you for those kind words. And one thing I need to just say about the Park Service and those early days, representing there, they really impressed upon me the complexities of large scale conservation, and what it means to have this kind of multi-stakeholder consensus and dialogue and debate. So you know, those conversations at the kitchen table growing up about bringing together and articulating arguments suddenly then you see it play out in this very real time way in the Park Service.
And that was really, really eye opening and interesting to me the interplay between the different US Government agencies and private sector and individuals and all of that. And then that long term commitment to a landscape and to an ecosystem, you know how that all comes together in certain ways. So, you know, in terms of life lessons taken away from the park service, that is one that I reflect on quite a bit. But coming to National Geographic, Holy Toledo, that was one of those moments, and I'll, I'll share this with you too, when I sometimes when I look at my life, The Wizard of Oz factored in, significantly in my childhood, it was one of two movies that I watched on repeat, and I never fall asleep, watching. I love the Wizard of Oz.
Alan Fleischmann
I’m still scared every time the witch, you know, is on a screen. And then when she melts, I'm still scared. And you know, it's been a few years.
Anna Rathmann
I don't know that I've ever you know, that scene where she like, comes really close, because she's like in the ball and Dorothy's got, oh, my gosh, I don't think I watched that scene until I was like, in my 30s. It was so scary. It's so scary. But there's so many themes in the Wizard of Oz that are great, this idea that you had it in you all along. And you may wind up in a space that is unfamiliar. And yet, you can make friends who will help you along the way, and you can learn things about them and yourself and the sense of adventure. So where this relates, I mean, there's a lot that I could draw on about that.
So I applied for National Geographic, had, at the time, this wonderful internship program, and it was for students who were in undergraduate studying geography as a major. And this is something that Gil Grosvenor, the former chairman of National Geographic and longtime president of National Geographic, was very instrumental in geography education in the United States. And so he had set up this, this internship program. And so I was in undergrad, I was studying geography, I just tossed my name in the hat because “who am I?” Little Anna, coming out of Valparaiso University, and I tossed my name in the heart for this internship. And when I got the phone call that my name had been chosen, I felt like Dorothy at the end of the Wizard of Oz, when she wakes up, And it was all a dream, you know? This isn't real. But you know, that was the start. I started as a research intern at National Geographic. I was one of 10 interns at that time. For my cohort, amazing, amazing individuals. And I was researching questions, I was a fact checker for the National Geography Bee. And so that meant that I was researching all kinds of odds and ends about world geography. And I'm great at pub trivia, when that's one of the categories now.
But it was wonderful. So I started as an intern there, and was very fortunate to meet some extraordinary people who I am. I feel very fortunate to call mentors, friends, inspirations, folks like Jane, but also Bob Ballard, Sylvia Earle, Derek and Beverly Chobert, and Enric Sala.And the photojournalists, the writers, the filmmakers, who are telling the story of this amazing planet upon which we live. So, you know, I still feel like it was all a dream. What an amazing experience.
Alan Fleischmann
How long were you there?
Anna Rathmann
I was there, as staff, for close to 10 years. And then Geographic is one of those places, you know, you don't ever really leave because there's such a wonderful, wonderful group of people who have come through.
Alan Fleischmann
So after that you went from there to running the Rathmann Group?
Anna Rathmann
I did. Yeah. So then when I left Geographic, which of course was, you know, I was just, I had such fond memories of that place and the opportunities that gave me and, you know, I had opportunities to take what I had seen in the Park Service, and then see it play out on a global scale, and to travel the world with some of these these people who were like the, you know, the preeminent kind of thought leaders and explorers at the time. So, from there when I left then, it was a wonderful experience to really express this entrepreneurialism and suddenly going from a larger organization where there are specialties and there's an HR department and there's a billing department and that kind of thing to then go: you are the departments. That was really, I liked it, it was a great experience. And I got to work with some really, really wonderful people in that chapter as well.
Alan Fleischmann
When you start your own group, though, that must have been the entrepreneur and you speak and did you know that you were an entrepreneur? Was that something you wanted? Or did you learn from that experience that maybe you weren't?
Anna Rathmann
Oh, wow, that's interesting. I think we all need to be a little entrepreneurial. I think that as leaders, you can never be too far away from the work. And what I loved about that chapter was, there was no one else the cavalry wasn't coming. And you had to, because you were starting something, it really depended on the effort that you put into it. And that was that was, I reflect on that all the time, if something needs to be done, you need to be prepared. It's like Coach Smith, they needed a coach. And he raised his hand. I'm here, I'll do it, you know, and that. So, the entrepreneurialism of that? Did I ever think I was going to be an entrepreneur? I don't know. I never thought much about that. But really rolling up your sleeves and making it happen. That was a good experience.
Alan Fleischmann
That's pretty cool. And you did that. And then you work in places you worked as the Inaugural Director, Great Plains Conservation Foundation. And that was where you worked in the protection and preservation of a bunch of initiatives in Kenya, Zimbabwe and Botswana.
Anna Rathmann
Yep.
Alan Fleischmann
Were you living there at the time, where were you?
Anna Rathmann
Gosh, no, no, I wasn't, I would go back and forth. And so this came about because of some relationships and folks that I had met at National Geographic, a husband and wife, filmmaker, photographers who are associated with National Geographic, longtime associated with National Geographic asked me to come and work with them to set up their Conservation Foundation. And it was attached to a commercial entity, which was part of the tourism industry, in Africa. And it was this great example of how you can have conservation, philanthropy and commercial interests working together and making impacts together and building and mutually reinforcing one another. And we did projects, we had small projects with big impacts where, you know, things like we were working with a community that did not have electricity. It was an off grid community in the Okavango Delta. And we gave them or through charitable donations. We gave them solar lanterns and the solar lanterns were then used in the evenings so that young people could finish their schoolwork and study. And so when you see that kind of small intervention, having these major impacts, and then talking with the teachers and and the school administrators about what an impact just that one small intervention had, it was pretty profound.
But our largest project was a rhino relocation reintroduction project. And that was a partnership between the Botswana government and the South African government. It involved wildlife management professionals from Southern Africa, and also military support, and we were actually translocating them by air in some instances where we would be flying the rhinos from South Africa into Botswana's, Okavango Delta, and creating a population of rhinos there. So pretty extraordinary. We used helicopters, we used military transport vehicles, and it was amazing. Absolutely amazing.
Alan Fleischmann
And its foundation that still continues. It's around?
Anna Rathmann
It does. Yes, absolutely. And they're still doing good work. Again, community focused, wildlife focused work. Yep.
Alan Fleischmann
And then you went back to business school. What made you decide to go to Georgetown to McDonough Business School? And what was the thinking there and how much has it changed your experiences?
Anna Rathmann
Yeah. Oh my gosh. Georgetown. I can't say enough good things about the experience that I had there. But what inspired me to go Will was really a series of conversations I was having where I was getting that frontline exposure to sophisticated finance, and talking with our CFO at the time. And just hearing this kind of knowledge that she had. And recognizing that I didn't have it. And I wanted it, you know, I wanted to understand these different presets. At that point, I had not taken any kind of finance accounting classes in undergrad. And so just hearing the way in which she had a command of a subject. And, you know, I wanted to know that too. And that was something that led me to Georgetown.
And I applied again, it was, it was a kind of long shot of, you know, let's see what the universe has in store. If it works, it works. Because I was coming with a background that would not be a traditional business school background. And I knew that and I knew that and I think I even said that to some of my, in my interview conversations at Georgetown, I said, Listen, I know I'm going to be the interloper here. And it's really a question of whether or not you want to bring different dynamics into the classroom and Georgetown welcomed it with open arms, and I am so grateful to the professors that I had the privilege of learning from and my fellow classmates who I count as friends and inspirations still.
Alan Fleischmann
Love that. And then is that how you went to Jane? Was it after graduating from Georgetown that the opportunity came up with the Jane Goodall Institute?
Anna Rathmann
It was wonderful. I think it was like a couple of weeks from graduation. You know, I mean, it was amazing. The timing was just amazing. So yeah, I had my shiny new diploma, and came out of business school. And Jane, Jane called up and invited me to join her amazing organization. And as you know, you can't say no to Jane.
Alan Fleischmann
What a great opportunity. Had you met Jane before then?
Anna Rathmann
So we had had limited interaction, we had never worked together. But of course, I knew about her and had, you know, kind of big exposure to her through National Geographic, but no, we hadn't worked together or met in any substantive way.
Alan Fleischmann
We'll tell our listeners a little bit who may not know, we've had Jane on a couple of times. But it's always good to hear a little bit about the background and the mission of JGI, Jane Goodall Institute.
Anna Rathmann
Yeah. Well, Jane started her extraordinary organization close to 50 years ago. And she did it with an original intent of wanting to ensure that the work that she had started in Gambe, and Gambe is in Western Tanzania. And that's the site where she had some of her most profound and pivotal discoveries where Jane truly changed the dialogue and the way in which humans and the scientific community relate to wildlife. And this is where Jane observed tool use. She observed and did a lot of studies around the relationships of mothers and their offspring and how that influences their social status later in life. She observed warfare amongst the chimpanzees.
And so that behavioral studies that she was observing that Leakey had given her the opportunity to go study was, was really groundbreaking and has those, those ripple effects have continued today. And Jane started the organization to ensure that her research continued uninterrupted. And that's something that we are proud to say has continued to this day, her work in Gambe has spanned over 60 years. We're going to be coming up on the 65th year here soon. And it's an uninterrupted study. It's one of the longest running uninterrupted studies of wild animals in the world. And that's really something that we are very proud of. But then Jane expanded beyond that. And she talks about how she had this pivotal moment in the 1980s that she was very much a researcher at the time. And she came to this conference, it was in Chicago, and she attended this conference and she famously says she came as a researcher, she left as an advocate, and that there were conversations that happened and invitations and challenges in that conference that made her walk away and recognize that she had an opportunity as an individual to give voice to things in a profound way and she really assumed that mantle.
And so from there, the Institute expanded its work. Our largest projects are landscape wide conservation initiatives, where we are preserving and protecting landscapes. Throughout Central Africa, we use chimpanzees as our species that guides where we have our conservation investments. So anywhere that chimpanzees are found, we have a presence. And we have projects. So that really spanned Central Africa. Our largest projects are still in western Tanzania, where it all began. But we have projects in Uganda, in the Democratic Republic of Congo, I was just in the Republic of Congo to observe some of our projects there where we run the largest sanctuary for wild chimpanzees in Africa.
So really extraordinary work that as Jane's understanding of the world and the interconnectedness of everything, that was what expanded and the organization manifested, then her own kind of expansive understanding. And then finally, about 30 years ago, Jane started a program based upon a conversation with some youth in Tanzania. And she was recognizing that as she was traveling the world, these young people were feeling very despondent and apathetic. And here's our future. And yet, it's been, you know, we have to inherit this and how are we going to do that, and through that, she developed this program called Roots and Shoots. And that's a Global Youth Program, although Jane will be quick to add its youth of any age. And she's very proud of the members of Roots and Shoots spanning everything from from the youngest and preschool and young people to you know, folks at the later years of their lives. And so it's, it's an amazing organization. I am privileged to represent the work of my colleagues and Jane, on a daily basis in this role.
Alan Fleischmann
Much of it is what I believe it's become,beyond talking about animal conservation, wildlife conservation, and preservation, it's gone even beyond that, really, really reminding us of what's so fragile and needed, as humans. I mean, that's this idea that we're desperately looking for hope and Jane serving that enormous, vast global void of leadership, and, and hope. But it's even more than that. It's really about humanity. Tell us a little bit more about that. That seems, when I think of you, I think of that as being one of the drivers of what you do every day as well.
Anna Rathmann
Absolutely, humans are inextricably linked to the health of the planet, to other wildlife. And Jane often uses this analogy of a tapestry of life. And that as threads are removed, that tapestry may hold, and it may resemble and you may be able to make out the imagery on it, but if more threads are pulled, the tapestry will eventually unravel, and humanity, we are absolutely a part of the system. And that's something that I think, Jane, when she, when she had these kind of pivotal learning moments, these “aha” moments, and to recognize the role that local communities play in decision making, that it's not something that just is sent down from on high, but the people who are living amongst these, these extraordinary other animals and the wildlife and the ecosystems, they are part of that. And so Jane has really focused both through Roots and Shoots and inspiring hope through that program. But hope is a central theme and all of her work and recognition, you know, I think she has something that is really, really profound because hope is, hope is a choice. We talk about hope being a verb, it's not something that just, you don't just hope something will happen. You take action to ensure that it does work towards that. And she often uses this analogy, which is really beautiful of being in a dark tunnel. And you see this pinpoint of light and that light, that pinpoint of light, that's hope, but you don't sit there and wait for the light to get brighter. You don't sit there and wait for the light to come to you. You start walking and you crawl over and you push aside the obstacles and and you do whatever it takes to get to that light.
Alan Fleischmann
And that's again going back to the in the orchestra analogy or the sports team analogy you Utah by community led efforts. And when you think about roots and shoots, that's probably the greatest example of building community I've ever seen inside instead of extraordinary scale around the world. And it's very organic. It's not, it's not top down heavy, it's really creating opportunity, collectively, Community Focus opportunity for those with incredible ideas, with big challenges ahead, a lot around climate change, to really go out there and try to be, you know, the geniuses that they are. You know, I think that's kind of the bedrock of what JGI is about, right? Community.
Anna Rathmann
Absolutely, it's leading with humility, and leading, leading by supporting others to assume that, that mantle of leadership in their own way, and what that may look like will look different. It will look different, depending on the cultural context, it'll look different depending on the environmental context. But it's, recognizing and supporting, and, you know, Jane talks a lot about the support that she received from her mother. And I, I think anyone who has had supportive influences in their life can look and understand just how strong that can be. And I know I have benefited from that and in multiple different ways. And that's what we are hoping to do both through Roots and Shoots, but through the way in which the Jane Goodall Institute approaches all of its projects and initiatives.
Alan Fleischmann
You’ve been listening to Leadership Matters on Sirius XM Radio, I'm your host Alan Fleischmann, and we're spending this hour with the incredible and insightful Anna Rathmann, the Executive Director of the Jane Goodall Institute. Anna is a dedicated conservationist herself. And it's so wonderful.
Tell us a little bit about, I think, urgent issues when I talked about the Jane Goodall Institute and what you're working on, I love talking about urgent issues. And I love it because it gives you the neighborhood you live in. It can be in China, it is in China. And it could be literally if it's not in 100 countries around the world, there are 100 initiatives around the world that are close to that. And nothing is like that in the world. But there are other initiatives to other other initiatives you want to mention that are important to us AGI
Anna Rathmann
Yeah, we talk at JGI a lot about a framework or a philosophy that we use and it's called tecare or to take care. And this came about through really listening to communities. And this is part of Jane's ethic and her philosophy of ensuring that you are truly listening to what are the needs of that community, and then supporting them with those needs. And obviously, the Jane Goodall Institute, we have certain projects that are focused on environmental or landscape projects, but working with the communities to make sure that their needs are addressed. And this is a mutually beneficial work in which we're partnering together. So, for example, we will do things with land use management, to bring in agroforestry, and making sure that the landscapes don't become degraded, so they can't be farmed or the forests are deforested. So tacare is a major, major focus of the Jane Goodall Institute. It's also where we see some of our largest program investments and some of our biggest partnerships. The US government is the largest funder of the Jane Goodall Institute. And we're very fortunate to partner with them on work in western Tanzania and across Africa. But we also just gained a new partnership with the Bezos Earth fund. And we're really grateful for that, for the work that we've been doing in the Democratic Republic of Congo and the Republic of Congo. So, you know, those kinds of partnerships and looking at entire landscapes and the vulnerabilities and the opportunities that those landscapes have for our planet and for the communities that depend upon them.
Alan Fleischmann
And the social justice, part of your work, the interconnectedness between social justice and environmental justice, the word justice, you know, it kind of lingers in my head when I hear that because, you know, there is this huge we're finally in a fight kind of mentality around Jane, around you around the institute and all these people that we gotta lean in hard and we got to fight hard. Just the trajectory, the pressure, the gravity is going the other way.
Anna Rathmann
I love the way that Jane talks about This and she will talk a lot about anytime you meet someone with a difference of opinion, a different perspective, it's important that you address both their heart and their head. And that you not just toss a lot of statistics or you know, maps, and I'm going to show you some graphs, and that's going to solve everything. But it's really approaching them through their heart as well. And understanding the role of science, understanding the role of research, understanding the role of analysis, and what that means. So it's science with a heart. And that's how you truly influence change. Jane has all kinds of amazing stories, all of my colleagues, all over the world have extraordinary stories of the impact of storytelling. In just that, and explaining why this matters. Why saving this landscape matters. Why saving a species or working to protect an entire ecosystem? Why does it matter? It matters not just to those species, it matters not just to those landscapes, or to the communities that are directly affected. But it matters to all of us because of this interconnected nature of our planet.
Alan Fleischmann
I love that. How much of your work is US only or global?
Anna Rathmann
Our biggest project investments are in Africa, that's where the majority of our work is focused. But as you mentioned earlier, our Roots and Shoots program is global. And that's something that we have a presence in the US here that we're really focused on growing as well, we're creating a series of what we're calling base camps around the United States, which will be areas of focus for our recent Shoots activities. Last year, we launched one in Atlanta and Los Angeles, and Tampa, Florida. So these are our initial places that we're calling our Roots and Shoots base camps. And we have a long list and a big plan for the years to come of expanding that. And, and sharing roots and shoots with as many people as we can.
Alan Fleischmann
Are there some other initiatives on the horizon that you're looking forward to bringing forward and announcing?
Anna Rathmann
There are so many I mean, that's the thing, Jane does not slow down. And it's, it's wonderful. You know, we have some things that are going to be happening in Africa that will honor and share Jane's stories with folks who come through Tanzania, and that's going to be a really exciting project, that'll share a light on Jane in Tanzania. It's going to be in Arusha. And it'll be a physical location there. But we also have some partnerships that we've been developing for the last few years that we're really looking forward to building out and, and just getting more people involved in work creating more hope in the world, and showing examples of positive impacts that we can make when we come together.
Alan Fleischmann
Are you hopeful?
Anna Rathmann
Oh my gosh. Absolutely. Absolutely. I am hopeful. I am hopeful. But it's important to be a realist. And that, as I said earlier, hope is a choice that you can look at the circumstances that are in front of you, and still be hopeful, and I absolutely am.
Alan Fleischmann
That's so important because we can't get to solutions. Without it. On the other hand, pragmatic vision is probably urgent at the moment, because we can't dawdle either. It's got to be done quickly and urgently.
When you think of the future. And even the future of conservation. Are there any new technologies or practices that actually are helping or could help around protection? AI? I'm curious if that comes into your conversations at all, at the Institute, and then just the use of technology in general? Do you see it as a friend?
Anna Rathmann
Yeah, we do. Absolutely. And this is again, following the lead of Jane Jane has always she's one of the most curious people who I've had the pleasure of ever meeting. And so new technologies are something that she embraces she wants to learn more. She wants to see how they can be helpful and applicable to the work. So at the Institute, we've had long standing relationships with some major technology companies and helping us advance our work and helping refine whatever the technology is that they are developing.
You mentioned AI in particular, that's a big source of conversation right now, certainly in our industry and globally as well. We see uses of AI in multiple different realms, whether it's creating species distribution models, or creating threat models to an ecosystem of you know, if this happens, and that happens, and, you know, mapping out biodiversity and the different types of plants and animals and these sorts of things, that can, that can be a huge help. We've also been using AI and this is something that's interesting, again, because Jane has this long standing continuous study of the chimpanzees. She's also been documenting it through photography and film for all these years. And we've partnered with technology companies to do facial recognition of the chimpanzees throughout our entire video archive of Gambe. And so to be able to identify a chimpanzee, and find them at different stages of their life, and it's even behavioral identification as well. So not just physical features, but we're starting to do models and working with technology companies to develop models of, you know, grooming behavior, or, you know, feeding behaviors or tool making behaviors, so that we can better mine, that archive of material that we have and share it with others for learnings. Oh, it's really cool. It's super cool.
Alan Fleischmann
And how you work with the other JGIs is around the world. There are other JGI eyes that are separate from you. How does that work?
Anna Rathmann
We are a networked organization. I represent the Jane Goodall Institute's US office. And I'm fortunate to have colleagues in 26 or 25 other offices around the world. And you know, this is a network. So what's wonderful about it is, regardless of where you are in the world, you're not far from a JGI. And you're not far from someone who is committed to helping work towards the ideals that Jane professes. And part of those projects, a lot of them are focused on Roots and Shoots. That tends to be a central focus of a lot of my colleagues around the world. But it's wonderful partnering with folks approaching conservation in different ways and expanding the kind of support and partnerships we can have. Because we are a globally networked organization.
Alan Fleischmann
That's cool. And do you all get together?
Anna Rathamnn
Not enough, not enough, because they're wonderful people. Yeah, we do. Every couple of years, we will have an in person gathering. And those are so special, those are just wonderful to share that presence with one another. But I've also had the opportunity to travel to Africa with some of my colleagues from the other chapters who represent some of the European chapters. And that's been a really, really wonderful experience to share that with them too.
Alan Fleischmann
That's great. What other things, what would you recommend or advise and, you know, to a lot of our listeners who were either aspiring to have career like yours, looking to embrace their leadership, and what they can do to make a difference in the world, from the private sector, from civil society, even in public sector, what would you advise them right now as being ways in which they can actually help further the work of JGI, for example, the work of Jane and you?
Anna Rathmann
Well, I'll start off by saying, conservation and the work of the Jane Goodall Institute. It takes all industries, it takes all types, it takes all backgrounds and experiences. And that's something I think it's really important to remember is that you don't have to have a PhD in biology to contribute to this work. You don't have to be a data scientist, to have a meaningful contribution to the conservation work that's happening around the world. It truly takes all types. And I've been fortunate enough in my work throughout my career to see that it is all industries represented and everyone has this role to play.
And so anyone who has any kind of interest in getting involved, there's a place for you. And that's, that's, I think, a very important thing. And in fact, creating unity from diversity is critical. And the different perspectives of different industries and different experiences is what makes this work stronger. It's what makes it more sustainable. Well, it's what makes it more meaningful. So bringing in that many different backgrounds is really, really critical. How can people get involved with the Jane Goodall Institute? Well, there's many different ways I would encourage everyone to learn more about roots and shoots. That's, that's a way that you can change the world, in your environment and, you know, become part of truly this global program and this global movement. So Roots and Shoots is a great one. We are a charitable organization. So, you know, our projects are funded through the generosity of individuals, partners and institutions. And that's what enables us to change the world and make these positive impacts. So we're always happy and very grateful for anyone who supports our work financially as well.
Alan Fleischmann
Anything you're doing on Earth Day?
Anna Rathmann
Oh my gosh, celebrating, Alan! But every day is Earth Day at the Jane Goodall Institute. So, yeah, you know, we are so grateful that it is recognized, and it is celebrated. But truly every day is Earth Day. And another big one that I will give you too, is World Chimpanzee Day, which was chosen, because it was the day that Jane arrived in Gambe, which was very, very special. So you know, all of these kinds of celebratory days. And of course, Jane's birthday just happened. She just turned 90.
Alan Fleischmann
She is the most incredible 90 year old we've ever met, she is still traveling, working 300 days of the year or more. Pretty extraordinary.
Anna Rathmann
I tell you what we chase after her. She is an inspiration. And for so many reasons.
Alan Fleischmann
This has been wonderful. You've been listening to the leadership matters. And on SiriusXM radio and on leadershipmattersshow.com. I'm your host, Alan Fleischman. We've spent the last hour with the extraordinary Anna Rathmann, who I know well, and we are so grateful for her leadership in running the Jane Goodall Institute. She's an amazing conservationist, amazing leader, a very, very low ego, highly competent leader, high confidence in what she's doing in the purpose in which he does it. But an extraordinary leader who really, really builds teams in this movement around Jane, and all the work we need to do to conserve and preserve our planet. So thank you so much for joining us today. Look forward to many more interactions with you and thanks for sharing your story.
Anna Rathmann
Well, thank you. This has been such a pleasure and I really appreciate it. So thank you so much for this opportunity.