Bob Iger

Chairman of the Board, and former CEO of The Walt Disney Company

Image by Thomas Hawk, licensed under CC BY-NC 2.0

“There are so many different components to leadership, it's certainly not one thing, it's not two, it's not five, it's probably at least 10 that are critical. And it ends up being a combination or a collection of all of them that turn someone into a great leader, and we can talk about a bunch of them. But it's very, very clear to me, […] that you have to be authentic, you have to be genuine. You can't fake anything.”

Summary

In this episode of Leadership Matters, Alan and his good friend Bob Iger discuss what makes someone a successful leader, including authenticity, optimism, candidness, accessibility, focus, knowledgeability, and decisiveness.

They discuss how Bob grew up taking advantage of every opportunity, from working as a stock boy at a hardware store, to scraping gum off of desks as a janitor at a school when he was only 15 years old, to making pizza while in college. Bob attended Ithaca College, the only school he applied to, where he learned from television experts like Rod Serling. Bob moved from sports to primetime television for ABC, eventually working his way up to President of ABC, and then President and CEO of Disney, a role he served in from 2005 to 2020. He credits his success to always working hard, always saying yes, and a stroke of luck.

Mentions & Resources in this Episode

• Bob Iger Masterclass – Click here to watch Bob Iger’s Masterclass.

• The Ride of a Lifetime: Lessons Learned from 15 Years as CEO of the Walt Disney Company – Click here to learn more about Bob Iger’s book.

• Jiro – Click here to learn more about Jiro, the sushi chef from Tokyo.

• Michael Eisner – Click here to learn more about Michael Eisner.

• Dan Burke – Click here to learn more about Dan Burke.

• Ron Serling – Click here to learn more about Ron Serling.

• Willow Bay – Click here to learn more about Bob Iger’s wife.

• Walter Cronkite – Click here to learn more about Walter Cronkite.

Guest Bio

Robert Allen Iger, born February 10, 1951, is an American businessman and Executive Chairman, Chairman of the Board, and former CEO (2005–2020) of The Walt Disney Company. He previously served as president of ABC Television from 1994–1995 and as president/COO of Capital Cities/ABC from 1995 until its acquisition by Disney in 1996. Iger was named president/COO of Disney in 2000 and succeeded Michael Eisner as CEO in 2005.

During his 15-year tenure as CEO, Iger broadened Disney's roster of intellectual properties and its presence in international markets. He oversaw the acquisitions of Pixar in 2006, Marvel Entertainment in 2009, Lucasfilm in 2012, and the entertainment assets of 21st Century Fox in 2019. Iger also expanded the company's theme park resorts in East Asia, with the introduction of Hong Kong Disneyland Resort and Shanghai Disney Resort in 2005 and 2016, respectively. He was a driving force behind the reinvigoration of Walt Disney Animation Studios and the branded-release strategy of its film studio's output.

Clips from This Episode

• Disney Executive Chairman, Bob Iger, shares his love of writing & the possibility of him releasing another book, after he leaves Disney.

• Bob Iger discusses his experience as Disney's Executive Chairman

• Bob Iger discusses is decision serve as Disney’s Executive Chairman

Episode Transcription

Alan Fleischmann 

Welcome, you're listening to Leadership Matters on Sirius XM Radio. I'm your host Alan Fleischmann, and I'm here today with a singular leader, Bob Iger, the executive chairman of Disney. Bob has transformed the way we think of media, business, entertainment, the whole landscape, and has overseen the creation of movies and shows that will be cherished and have been cherished for generations. As CEO of Disney from 2005 to 2020, Bob Iger has made the House of Mouse an undisputed entertainment juggernaut across the globe. Perhaps it's considered, for his leadership, it is considered to be the most beloved company in the world. It's certainly, perhaps, the most admired. Marvel, Star Wars, Pixar, so much of what currently dominates our screen small and large, Bob brought those all under the Disney umbrella, and turned out hits that consistently rank among the top grossing films of all time. Bob, Disney has not been so much more than or has been so much more than a bunch of record breaking blockbusters. What Bob has done on the parks front as he opened Shanghai Disneyland, which has drawn millions and millions of new guests. And what he's done in media and technology is really unsurpassed anywhere. He's kept Disney on the cutting edge, and the Disney plus streaming service has more than 100 million subscribers after just 16 months since it launched. So stepping down from the CEO role in February of last year, Bob has stayed on as Disney's executive chairman, very active and very essential executive chairman. In that position, he is helping to manage the transition with his successor, and has been acting as something of a creative content czar. Bob has said, He will depart from Disney at the end of this year so there's a lot to discuss here about how he's weighing his next steps. He has been called Hollywood's nicest CEO. And he's widely known as a family man who recently donated $5 million to help small businesses with COVID-19. His wife, Willow Bay, who is well known, is the Dean of the Annenberg School for Journalism and Communications. I am so grateful, Bob, that you're joining us today on Leadership Matters and I'm just looking forward to asking you lots of questions and hearing about your extraordinary journey. And I will say, you know, the show's called Leadership Matters. It's really about why leadership matters. But it's also what matters in leadership. And I think, with you, uniquely with you, we can get into some of the the things that matter, actually, when it comes to actually becoming a leader, maintaining a leadership role and having a real impact on the world like you do. So I'm just so grateful you're here.

Bob Iger 

Well, thank you very much, Alan, thank you for that rather generous introduction too. I listened to those things, and they're always out of body experiences for me a bit. I think, who was this guy talking about, but I appreciate it nonetheless.

Alan Fleischmann 

Well, I will say that I mentioned to you before the show started, that I enjoyed so much watching your Masterclass that you did. And the whole series of that Masterclass and I listened to it in a way that one would binge watch any kind of good podcast and what struck me, and you just reminded me by the way, you just responded to my introduction of you was how you keep humility in check. And I think that comes from the fact that you are insatiably curious. Curiosity seems to be a theme in your life. And you have great, a lot of gratitude. And I think that started off with you're growing up when you really talk about the values and the influence of your family, and where you started in New York. And I'd love you to tell us a little bit about where you grew up in New York. I think it was Oceanside, Long Island. And, you know, it's kind of famous for a lot of really cool things, including the Nathan's hot dog. But I'd love you to tell us a little bit about you know, you're you know, you're a city kid or a suburban kid? How did you grow up and a little bit about your family?

Bob Iger 

Well, I was born in the city. I was born in Brooklyn, New York, my parents were both born and raised in Brooklyn. And my dad fought in World War II in the Navy, and came back, got married, and ultimately had me in 1951, and then my sister in 1953. And like, so many city people at the time, they wanted to raise their family in a suburban environment as opposed to an urban environment. And they took advantage of the GI Bill which was extremely generous at the time, it's interesting to think about it in the context of today, which is essentially an interest free loan to buy a house and my parents bought a house. That was you know, what it was called the development. 500 houses built in 1955 and 6, all exactly the same. So I lived on a block where every single house and among other blocks looked the same and most of the fathers, because women didn't fight in World War II, they were in the service, but didn't fight. But most of the fathers were veterans who had fought overseas. So I grew up in—there was something bucolic about it, not that it was beautiful, but it was simple and it was safe and it was new. And with that came the belief in opportunity and possibilities. Even though we were of modest means, very modest means, my dad, who had a great education, went to Wharton, and was quite an intelligent man had issues with manic depression. And because of that was never able to really hold a job for very long. So it was instability in the house economically and then to some extent, emotionally, although it didn't really scar me. But anyway, I grew up in modest means. But in an environment that made everybody feel like they had potential. And I guess in many respects, I'm a product of that. And of parents, by the way, who exhorted me to be curious. I'm not sure if you're born curious or not. But I think some people are a little bit more curious innately than others. But my father, certainly, and my mom too, drew it out of me. It was a very, very important value of his, that I seek new experiences and to learn more particularly to read and that was a, that was a great part of my upbringing. Anyway, a big public high school 900 kids in my senior class, graduated in 1969, right in the middle of the Vietnam War, when the protest movement against Vietnam was exploding. After we at least thought we had gotten over the civil rights movement. Interesting to look back on that these days, we said, we thought that there were many victories. One, clearly, we didn't realize there were many victories needed still. And that exists today. But anyway, I grew up very, very politically aware, I think, because I was of that era. And because my parents were very much engaged in both advocating very staunchly for civil rights, and advocating very staunchly and vehemently against the Vietnam War. And anyway, graduated high school, wanted very much to become a television journalist. My idol was Walter Cronkite, who was then the anchor of CBS News, considered by many to be the most trusted man in America. And that's what I wanted to be, I wanted to be Walter Cronkite. And so—

Alan Fleischmann 

How did you, how did you know that that was something you wanted to do, because what also struck me, which I think is a big part of you is that you had a lot of really odds and ends jobs when you were growing up. Not all glamorous, if I recall, you are scraping gum off of a desk as a 15 year old summer janitor at a school, and then you made pizza in college when you went to Ithaca college. I can't say that you didn't kind of take advantage of every opportunity. You had to kind of scrape by literally. But along that way you obviously discovered that you were a great communicator.

Bob Iger 

Well, yes, it's interesting because it was, speaking of the jobs, my parents never said to me, if you want to if you want other things in life, meaning that would take money to buy, then you have to go out and earn it. They never said that, but I knew that if I wanted more, I would have to earn the right to have more in some form. And so I started as a stock boy in a hardware store. I had summer jobs at in the school district as a summer custodian, as they call this. And among those jobs was preparing the school for the next year. And that meant scraping all the gum off from the year prior, by the way talking about tedium. I can remember it. Yeah. And these were big schools, you turn every desk over with a scraper and spend the entire day on your knees scraping gum off and then go to the next class in the next class itself. And then when I got to Ithaca College, then it was very clear that while my dad helped me with with some room and board and, and tuition, he couldn't do anything more than that. So any spending money I had to earn so I immediately got a job working as a pizza maker at a Pizza Hut. And all of those things. I think you mentioned being humble or maintaining humility. I think my whole background enabled me to have some humility, but I think also, it enabled me to appreciate people who had jobs that were not the glamour jobs, not the white collar jobs where you put on a suit and tie and came to work and have an air of authority about you. But to appreciate those people that we say in the trenches, you know that were either fixing the elevator or cleaning your office after a long day or or putting big videotape on a big tape machine. And you know were getting on their knees in a studio to hold a heavy camera. And so, I'm glad that I had that, the experiences that I had. So that when I got into the real workplace, at ABC when I was 23, I did not view my, I was an entry level position. But throughout I was able to maintain a connection and appreciation for people at all levels of the corporation.

Alan Fleischmann 

I think the respect for your colleagues and all levels, I think is huge. The words respect, you know, curiosity, nothing is beneath you, when you're even if you're in the command are all qualities I think I've learned when I think of you. I'm curious. So did you choose Ithaca College because of the fact that you wanted to be a journalist, I guess that you majored in television and radio there.

Bob Iger 

Well, I was a B student in high school. It was just something—I didn't apply myself as much as I felt I needed to for some reason, my father had a dream of my going to the University of Pennsylvania, which is where he went, but that never panned out. So I ended up marrying someone who went to the University of Pennsylvania. I filled in that blank in a different way. And I was looking at schools, I was looking at communications, and then they were called radio and television programs. And I went upstate, and saw first Cornell. And then I went across the hill, and saw Ithaca, and they just opened up this gorgeous new television and radio center at the school. I fell in love with it, it's the only school I applied to. And I got in.

Alan Fleischmann 

You were that confident you'd get in or was one of those where if you didn't get in, you would have taken a break?

Bob Iger 

No, if I did well, I think I was confident I'd get in, if I didn't get in, I was gonna have to quickly apply to some other school. I think I applied early decision if I recall, but it's a long time ago. And I got in and turned out it was a great experience for me, I loved it. It was everything I had hoped it would be, I had a good education and a practical education as well, working in studios, on sets, and running camera and editing tape and making documentaries. And you name it and, and Rod Serling, who created Twilight Zone was an adjunct professor in Ithaca. So I also had the benefit of learning television and writing and directing from one of the true masters. And it's interesting because to this day, I remember vividly analyzing Twilight Zone scripts with him. And talking about episodes and it left quite an impression on me. But it just served me extremely well.

Alan Fleischmann 

I'll just say do what you love college. I did. I loved college. And it was a place that I think I made I made the best of in the sense that, you know, we're paying for a college education, don't squander it, you know, and I soaked it all in, at every level really, and left wanting to be a newscaster and started as a weatherman and a feature news reporter in Ithaca, New York at a small TV stations smaller than small. And my plan was I would do that and then go to a bigger market and then a bigger market and work my way all the way up, hopefully to the big time which would have been in New York, at a network/ But less than a year into it, I guess I look myself in the mirror so to speak, and ask myself, am I really gonna get there? Am I really going to be able to fulfill the dream that I had? And my sense at that time, and I don't remember that vividly, but my action certainly suggests that it was a profound experience, were that I was not going to get there. And so I pivoted and decided, well, if I'm not going to be a star on camera, at least I'll figure out how to be good off camera. And I went to New York and knocked on doors and through a little bit of luck and a quirk of fate, I got a job at ABC as kind of the equivalent of a production assistant. Now that was 47 years ago. And that and that started, I guess truly an entry job. Were you, how long were you at ABC? This is now early 70s. Right?

Bob Iger 

73. I started ABC in 74. I graduated college in 73. And I stayed at ABC. Well, we were bought by Disney and 95. So I never left. And then I became a Disney employee or cast members as Walt used to call us, we still use that term. So technically, I've never left a company. I started in 1974 and 47 years late, here I am as the executive chairman.

Alan Fleischmann 

What was the first role, what was the first row ABC to you. I guess it sounds like you must have loved it from day one. And you knew that was where you wanted to be. That's the first thing is you stayed.

Bob Iger 

Yes. And I had, you know, it's so interesting because I talk often because everybody always asked me What's the secret to your success? I worked really hard. I discovered very early on. Maybe I knew this before I got ABC. But it was even more apparent when I did, that nothing beats hard work. And that and I could outwork anybody. And I did. And then I had unbelievable strokes of luck, one after the other after the other. And one, which is a memory that I wrote about in the book, is I get assigned to a Frank Sinatra concert at Madison Square Garden. So ABC was covering, was airing a live concert of Frank Sinatra's in October of 74. And I worked there I got a credit I met Frank Sinatra. It's kind of a funny story because I had to deliver mouthwash or Listerine to his dressing room, never expecting to see him. And some very, very burly security guard, opened the door. If I meekly knocked on it, yes, kid, what do you want? I've got Mr. Sinatra's Listerine. And there was a little bit of chatter. And next thing I hear is the voice that sounds very familiar. It's Frank Sinatra saying, Wait a minute, let me let me take let me take that from him. And he introduced himself and I very meekly introduced myself to him. And he asked me where I was from, I told him and he gave me $100, crisp, $100 bill. Which is I you know,

Alan Fleischmann 

That's very cool.

Bob Iger 

And then because I had done that and done that well, it turns out it was produced by the head of ABC Sports Roone Arledge. And from there, he said with the crew that work with him why don't you come over and work with us in sports. And that started a 13 year run at ABC Sports, which is when my career at ABC really started to take off.

Alan Fleischmann 

And that's where you started getting into, I guess, managing and becoming part of the leadership.

Bob Iger 

Yeah, I got into just about everything there. People remind me that I had 13 jobs and 13 years and 13 promotions, I just kept getting promoted, until I was head of programming for ABC Sports and expecting to be the next president of ABC Sports. In 1988, after the Calgary Olympics that I worked on, and then ABC had been bought by Capital Cities, small television station company communications company. And the two guys who ran that company, Tom Murphy and Dan Burke kind of plucked me out of sports obscurity and said, Hey, we got bigger plans for you. And one thing led to another and next thing I know, they sent me out to California to run ABCs entire primetime division. And that thrust me at the age of 37 into, you know, a truly a senior role with not only a lot of responsibility, but a lot of visibility, both inside and outside the company. And I fortunately, did well, in that job with a great team of people I had, I inherited a really fine group of people who decided to adopt me as their own, which was probably smart of them since I was their boss.

Alan Fleischmann 

Exactly.

Bob Iger 

They really taught me that part of the business, particularly two guys named Ted Harvard and Stu Bloomberg, and together, the three of us took ABC to number one primetime, which had been the goal. And then that led me back to New York when they promoted me to President of the network, the entire network, ultimately, president of the company soon after, and that's when we were bought by Disney. So I know, it's tough. It's funny, because it when I describe it, people think it's a straight line up, but no career path, that lasts a long time is a straight line.

Alan Fleischmann 

You know, the truth is, I mean, no matter how much you can plan it, you couldn't have planned it. I mean, it just was, I guess it goes back to your, you know, the young kids taking the gum off the bottom of the desk every day. I mean, you just keep working hard and working hard. And eventually, they obviously they'd recognize your leadership and your capability and just kept the momentum kept moving.

Bob Iger 

Yeah, so look along the way I had opportunities to show people what I could do. That's a stroke of luck, too. So I never felt like I was toiling in obscurity there. You know, the fact that I went when I was in Calgary and running programming, and the bosses that came to Calgary to observe, they observed me firsthand in action, and liked what they saw, and that's what gave them the idea that maybe they should give me a bigger job in California. And then when I went there, and I was doing that well, it didn't necessarily mean it was going to lead to another job on a timely basis, but the guy who had it retired and so to become president of the network, someone had to exit that role, and he did so voluntarily. And then my boss, Dan Burke, who was COO and president of the whole company, he retired, and I got his job. So you can't, it's interesting, you know, I guess people say you create your own opportunities. That's not completely true. I think you have to be always positioned to take advantage of an opportunity that comes up, which is both being prepared and being capable and having the guts to say yes, yeah, yeah. And also, you know, sacrificing in other ways, I moved from New York to LA then I moved back from LA to New York to become president of ABC, then I moved back from New York to LA after Disney bought us, ultimately to become president and chief operating officer of Disney. So, and not everybody is, even can do that. Because the personal sacrifice is too great or is willing to do that because it's uprooting a family and everything else that comes with it. And then the uncertainty of taking a job. That don't care how confident you are as a human being, you have to have a few pangs of anxiety that well, maybe it's the job they'll finally discover I'm not any good. Yeah, I never I never had I always said yes. And I wasn't that I was overly confident just that I didn't have fear.

Alan Fleischmann 

And you knew to say yes, as though kind of became your MO. As long as you say, yes. You'll keep moving. If you say No, you won't.

Bob Iger 

Yeah, and by the way, if you hesitate, you won't. I remember, when I was first told I was being moved to LA to be president of ABC entertainment. I got a call on a, I think it was a Monday night. And the boss said, Could you fly out to LA, we want to talk to you out there. I flew out on Tuesday. And the following Monday, I was working full time in LA. It's not like I had a lot of time to think about it.

Alan Fleischmann 

You actually but you but you were CEO, and a leader and you still are in an industry where you know, you're saying how you were, you realize soon after Ithaca that you didn't want to be before the camera you wanted to be on the other side. But in reality, your career has not only permitted your career, it's a necessity in the work you've done in many ways to be on both sides of the camera and maybe not as, as you know, as ever present as you would be if you were on the on the news or you know, delivering the news. But you've had to have a very public facing career as a CEO and as a leader along that way, along that journey.

Bob Iger 

Yeah,

Alan Fleischmann 

It's been competitive. Yeah.

Bob Iger 

Yeah. You know, I followed Michael Eisner as CEO of Disney. He had been CEO for 21 years, he was one of the most visible CEOs in the country in that era, it was the era of Lee Iacocca and ultimately Jack Welch and Michael Eisner. And they were very well known. And Michael, was also hosting the wonderful world of Disney on Sunday nights, as Walt Disney had done before him. So he was literally on camera every week, and a household name, in many ways. And when I got the job, I didn't model myself completely after Michael, in terms of being on the air like that, but I was well aware. And he made me aware of it in a very good way that Disney was a company that attracted a lot of interest. And because of the fact that we make products that touch everybody, there's a public face to Disney and the people who run it. That probably has a little has a little bit more light, glaring at them or on them than a typical company CEO. And I knew that I knew it would serve the company well, if I put myself out there more. And then of course, as my tenure wore on, and the company became more successful, the interest in me became greater and it became actually somewhat challenging to balance. That, particularly when it came to managing my time, I was very, very aware that the more time I spent outside the company, pontificating about a various variety of things less than we're spending, working at the company managing day to day. And it's a it's a delicate balance, you have to create.

Alan Fleischmann 

I would say though, it had to be amazing, this idea of no fear, and saying yes before no, which I know is a big part of your, of your style of leadership and the way, you know, the way you approach things had to be also daunting. I mean for you to take over for Michael Eisner, being the creative person that you are, you weren't just inheriting from a well known CEO, you were inheriting probably one of the most sacred brands, you know, in the world. And you know, and you're a creative guy, and you went on to create a lot of change, but to take that on, I bet a lot of other people would have taken that on and said, do nothing but not break it. You know, but you actually did keep moving.

Bob Iger 

Well, yes. You know, there were a few dynamics at play than Michael really, I talked fondly about him in this regard. He, he re-founded Disney, he came in in the mid 80s. And Disney was just in terrible, terrible shape. And he reinvented it in so many different ways, creatively and otherwise. It was both creativity and commerce. It was just soaring. And then his last few years of the company, the company faltered, and for a variety of reasons, and I look very fondly on both Michael's reign as CEO. I shouldn't use that word, but in this case, it's okay. And the lessons that he taught me, but when I came in, there was not only a need to put the company on more solid footing because of the trouble we had just gone through, but we were also on the cusp of what I believe would be an era of huge disruption to the entire business. And I felt very strongly about the need for us to immediately, one, become aware of the disruption, know how it might affect us, and figure out how we are going to ultimately withstand it.

Alan Fleischmann 

Was that technology, the role of technology?

Bob Iger 

Yes, I mean it starts with technology, it starts with one, technology enabling more creators and more distributors, basically more being made, and more being consumed. On the consumption side, it also affected how people behave, how consumers behave very, very differently than before. And you think I watched the music industry very closely. And that was a great example to me of an industry that not only couldn't figure out disruption, but tried to will it away, you know, wedded to the, whatever the 12, to 15 song album, you know, while everybody else wanted singles. And then of course, Steve Jobs comes along with iTunes, and, you know, basically explodes the entire industry. And it seemed like the industry had had its head in the sand, I was starting to see that happening in the television and motion picture business. And I did not want Disney to have its head in the sand. So it's not just a question of making sure your head is above the sand, but it's figuring out what it is. How not to get it shot off, in a way, and then what to do when you're looking about. So I felt a sense of urgency when I got the job to transform the company.

Alan Fleischmann 

Well what's amazing to me is that, you know, now people look back and they look at Disney, and they say, wow, it all makes sense that you'd have news, and we'd have broadcast, you know, digital, you know, film, entertainment, parks, all under one roof. But it wasn't then. And in fact, I remember when it wasn't. And then as you started to acquire, and you know and make these selective choices to be part of the Disney family, I know a lot of people that said, that made no sense. Now, it makes perfect sense. But you really had to see something that nobody else saw.

Bob Iger 

Well, Michael started by buying Capital Cities ABC and bringing into what was then Disney, which is mostly a movie company with parks and resorts and a small TV company. But then he brings in ABC, ESPN, and everything that comes with it and transformed the company then. Then in my case, I consolidated a bit by divesting businesses that I didn't think could withstand disruption. The radio business was the best example of it. And then concluded that the best way to manage through a disruptive period was with the greatest content in the world. And that's what really gave birth to the strategy that led to buying Pixar, Marvel and Lucasfilm and then in 2018 or 19, 20th Century Fox.

Alan Fleischmann 

Then when you think about it, you brought back animation. I mean, that sounds logical that you would have that would have been a Disney legacy, but it had not really been at that point. You know, you made the greatest movies of all time in modern history, both animation and feature have all happened under your watch on your leadership.

Bob Iger 

Well, it's nice of you to say that. If you look at the history of Disney, a company that will be 100 years old, by the way in 2023. Amazing really. Up until fairly recently, as animation goes, so goes the company. So if you look at Walt's height, you know that the halcyon days of Walt's tenure, running the company starting in 23, ending when he died in the mid 60s, when his animation was the strongest. And that was true for Michael too he came in and immediately revitalized Disney animation. And then came Beauty and the Beast and Little Mermaid and of course Lion King being among them. And then we faltered again. And then I come in knowing that I had to revitalize animation first. Get that right first. And that's where all roads lead to Pixar. And that not only brought in incredible Pixar talent, and Pixar becoming part of the company, we had been a partner of theirs, but that was ending. But the Pixar executives, namely John Lasseter and Ed Catmull, turning Disney Animation around, but at the same time keeping Pixar vital and bringing Steve Jobs in as our, not only our largest shareholder, but a member of the board. And then that set us on a course because I suddenly had a partner in crime on the technology side, enabling me and cajoling me in some ways, so they didn't need much, to really focus on technology and what it was doing to our industries, and not be in any way hesitant to not only invest in it, but to experiment with it.

Alan Fleischmann 

I guess one of the legacies of that is Frozen, later on. Yeah.

Bob Iger 

Yeah. You know, that's a whole other side to technology and its impact on creativity, that was also very, very apparent to me. And that is that, in order for, at least in our industry, the film and television industry to continue to be relevant, it wasn't necessarily in changing the values of what you were creating or infusing your storytelling with new values, it was presenting them in much more relevant, modern ways. And we had been in the 2D animation business experimenting with some 3D, or CGI computer generated. And Pixar then, of course, broke the mold and went full bore with it. And not only were they telling great stories, but they looked and felt much more of the time. And they're relevance started to eclipse Disney's, and so I felt we had to be relevant again. And so there was not only bringing in the artists of Pixar, it was bringing the technologists too, and enabling us to make animation and looked and felt like there's. Frozen's a great example. But Moana and Zootopia. We had some big, big Disney hits in that period of time. And then of course, another way to use technology to create relevance is to distribute it in new ways. So that when the consumer consumes that they're consuming on new platforms, and it just feels more fresh. I think Netflix in many respects, proved that with what really began as movies and television shows. And we've now proven it again with Disney plus, and but interestingly enough, before Netflix, and before Disney plus, Steve and I concocted a way to put ABC shows, and then Disney movies on the iTunes platform. So suddenly, you could watch Lost, Desperate Housewives, and Grey's Anatomy on a video iPod initially, and then of course, on the phone. And then of course, on your iPads and then on laptops and desktops. And to the consumer, you no longer you know, watch it through a cable box and a clunky remote control device on a big fixed set on the on the wall, you know, it's in your hand, you're going for a walk, as you described with your daughter, you know, watching a masterclass. And there's something, there's a cool factor about it, there's a convenience factor and there's a navigation factor that makes, that adds a lot of value to it.

Alan Fleischmann 

It kinds creates an empowerment thing too, I mean, in some ways, you know, there's an intimacy to it, and you do feel like—I'm in the project with you when I get to share things with you on my own phone. It's kind of like the way it used to be with TV, only when you come into someone's living room, in some ways is even more personal when you're actually on someone's iPhone.

Bob Iger 

Yeah, people still watch a lot of—even I call it new TV on these new platforms on television sets, or monitors that are fixed to the wall. That actually interestingly enough still dominates. But there's a lot more growth in consumption on mobile devices and desktops and laptops and tablets and I find this something very intimate about it. I love I can—I have a big set in my bedroom, and sometimes I'll sit in bed, watching a show on my iPad with headphones on. Now it doesn't disturb my wife who is next to me. But there's just something—there's a closest and it bring. It brings you into.

Alan Fleischmann 

And a bit of an independence as well. You're listening to Leadership Matters on Sirius XM. I'm your host Alan Fleishchmann, and I'm here with the executive chairman of Disney, Bob Iger. And we're talking about his journey and frankly, getting a lot of really good insights into his leadership and legacy and a legacy that will be felt for many years to come. What I love about you also if you have maybe that's a curiosity inside of you, but you don't leave anyone thinking. You just wrote a book, amazing book. You're doing all these kind of interesting things like Masterclass. Your tenure as executive chairman is ending this year, you're turning 70 this year? You are. Right? I mean, all that time.

Bob Iger 

I turned 70.

Alan Fleischmann 

You did already. Okay, all this is happening and honestly, anyone that knows you would say the best is yet to come. It sounds funny, but maybe that comes with your, you know, you're very youthful, and we all live to be very much older. And I guess the idea here is there's a lot of interest in you know, learning from you going on this journey with you. And you know, there's rumors about you all the time. You know, because people respect your leadership, that you're playing a role all the time in public, private and civil society life. So I, I want to make sure we, we figure that out, because, you know, you're constantly creating. Even your announcement Bob, that you were stepping down as CEO, which to many people, it kept being extended. Everyone assuming you might be might be retiring. And then, you know, the board kept asking you for more. And then even when it was very abruptly was announced that you were going to step down, you didn't stop creating, I mean, the creative side of you, is still what people think of the last month actually, you're not kind of letting go of the steering wheel when it comes to being creative. And I'd love you to talk about that, too. I mean, obviously, you came from extremely successful acquisition of 21st Century Fox. But the question now is like, even now, you're still creating Disney. You said, Disney plus, for example, that was a household word in my family. You know, as soon as I came out, my daughters were like, gotta get it right away.

Bob Iger

So well, I don't know where you want me to where you want me to dive in. In terms of you know, the best is yet to come. I don't even know what is yet to come. I am excited about life after Disney after, as I said, 47 years at ABC, Disney. I felt very strongly and moving on. And it's just seeing what was what was on the other side. It had nothing to do with being tired. It had nothing to do with frustration. I come to work every day. And now of course, I'm working from home. But it was just as much excitement and energy and engagement and commitment that I had throughout. And that makes me feel great. But I did not want to overstay my welcome. I wanted to, I really wanted to leave at a time that felt good that I had accomplished a lot that I had not hit too many speed bumps, or suddenly that my luck rent would run out or all of those things. I wanted the timing to be right and 15 years felt like enough. And so what I proposed to the board, I know it felt abrupt because we kept this very quiet. But some months before the announcement, I proposed to the board that I would stay on through the end of my tenure, which is the end of 21. But in a different role. And that would accomplish a few things. One, it would, it would immediately name my successor. Meaning, put someone new in the job at a time that I was still around, so that I could spend time helping the person who succeeded me be successful, which is in my own best interest, but in the best interest of so many people. And also focus, in that period of time since I would no longer be running the company day to day, on our creative endeavors, which at Disney really the entire value proposition of the company. No matter what business we're in, starts with creativity. It emanates from creativity. So I thought the best thing I could possibly do for the company would be: one, make sure that we succeeded succession and that my successor is successful. And then second, leave the company and my successor with the greatest possible hand creatively, a pipeline of movies and television shows and theme park attractions and lands and you name it, that would power the company for many years to come. And I could only do that,  spend all my time on it if I could spend all my time on it.

Alan Fleischmann 

The integration among these companies has been successful too on your leadership when you've actually it's not just the individual verticals that you brought together, but it's actually what they mean horizontally I guess in the integration across the company as well.

Bob Iger 

Yes, that you know, the acquisition was not just about buying assets. It was about figuring out how they bet to our overall business.

Alan Fleischmann 

You've got National Geographic now. You've got some pretty iconic, additional iconic brands.

Bob Iger 

Yes, did I just lose you Alan?

Alan Fleischmann 

No, I'm here. Can you hear me? You're good? Yeah.

Bob Iger 

I lost you in my head. I don't know why. There you go. Okay.

Alan Fleischmann 

I think it's like you know, you have National Geographic now with you and I think of all these iconic brands that you've pulled together and you're doing a lot of really creative things like National Geographic with Disney. Two very well respected brands. So your'e retiring?

Bob Iger 

National Geographic and the Simpsons. If you watch Disney plus, the Simpsons are all over Disney plus and Avatar is coming and FX is on Hulu and the people running our television organization, non sports television, all came from Fox, Peter Rice and John Landgraf and Dana Walden. So it, you know, integration of a company and assets that are that big is never easy, but we're on the right side of it at this point. It's humming along. I think, you know, in terms what I ended up doing, I feel re-energized because I can spend so much time on the creative side. And I also feel incredibly confident that when I step away, you know the company will be in good shape and in good hands. And it feels great. And going all the way back to what you said about the best is yet to come. I think the one of the most exciting things for me is having a complete blank canvas. I'm going to continue painting by the way, if people think— Yeah, I'm not retiring. I can't possibly do that. First of all, my my wife is still working, my kids are all out of the house. I'm not gonna sit around the house, binge watching television shows. And so I will figure it out. But I am not going to figure it out while I'm still at Disney. And I'm not going to overcommit so that by the time I get out, I won't have any freedom either. So I'm looking forward to a little bit more leisure, I haven't had as much as I would like these last 16 years now. Because the time consumption required to run a company like this. So I'd like a little bit more leisure time in my life. And I'd like more adventure, whatever that is.

Alan Fleischmann 

A little more risk, but you do like painting.

Bob Iger 

No, no, no, no, no, I was just using it. No.

Alan Fleischmann 

I thought you were actually saying maybe you do. No, you must like writing. Because I know your book was so personal. And it was so—there's no question when you listen to the book, if you do it on Audible, which is your voice, or whether you're you know, or whether you're reading it, you know, it's your voice. I mean, it's you.

Bob Iger 

I love to write. And it's interesting, my father would be so proud of me because he always wanted me to write. And I've been I've grown as a writer, and I probably will do more. I'm actually thinking of another book right now, started actually, I started it with just some loose outlines and writing down some thoughts. But I think there's definitely another chapter or two or 10 maybe. And I'll see where life takes me. It's pretty exciting. This certainly, you know, I've learned a tremendous amount in this great company—from this great company that I've worked for. And I'm sure I'll be able to apply that in other directions.

Alan Fleischmann 

Yeah, you mentioned Jack Welch and DIA Coker from that era, you know, they wrote books, too, I mean, and they became, you know, they were the, you know, the go tos CEOs, where they talked about leadership. And I would say you transformed that even more because of the vastness and the, that you've touched people's lives. And frankly, again, your your leadership role that does criss cross, you know, public, private and civil society life. So, I mean, I would argue there's a lot, there's a lot more people can gain your book is terrific. And you could do another one, and focus on leadership maybe a little bit and give people you know, a little bit of a masterclass on what they need to do in order to for them to seek opportunity, or identify it and, and what does it mean to kind of be contributing member of society? I mean, I think you offer a lot there as well.

Bob Iger 

Thank you.

Alan Fleischmann 

Yeah. So I would urge you to keep writing as well. What are you trying to accomplish in the last part of this tenure, you know, at Disney right now too, because you know, you're coming out. Hopefully, we're coming out of COVID soon. I know that we're opening up the parks, I guess, Disneyland is opening up right this month. April.

Bob Iger 

Our CEO announced yesterday that we're opening Disneyland April 30. He went to Disneyland to make the announcement and the excitement on his face was palpable. You know, he was like a kid. And it was that kind of moment for the company too there was something very exhilarating about it.

Alan Fleischmann 

Hey, there's a ripple effect of that, because people all heard about it, because it was a great sign that there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

Bob Iger 

I turned on the evening news last night, and there was a story on the news about Disneyland.

Alan Fleischmann 

Yeah.

Bob Iger 

And I think it says a lot about Disneyland. But it also says a lot about what we've been through, you know, these last 12 months. And the fact, you're right, that there's a light at the end of the tunnel. And by the way, you know, I think there's something so symbolic about Disneyland reopening. So, you know, I mean, in the statement that that makes this gigantic, but I remember we were on a plane. Bob and I were on a plane in March of 2020 returning from Orlando to LA and Governor Newsom, the governor of California, had done a press conference about COVID. And he was essentially laying out what became the closure of the state. Not that he was the only governor doing it. And I think he might have said in that conference call, we're going to let Disneyland continue to operate or something along those lines. I think because it was unheard of to think about closing Disneyland. I got him on the phone. I called him from the plane. And I said, Governor, we're going to close Disneyland. We just don't think it's the responsible thing to operate it, not just to our guests, but to our own employees or guests members. And I think he was actually relieved, it would have been a tough announcement for him to make. Little did we know we're going to be closed for over a year. And I've had a number of conversations with him about that, because I've, you know, we've wanted to open in some, under some limited circumstances for some time, because we reopened in Florida. But that's neither here nor there. But I think closing it was a big deal, and announcing that it's reopening is just as big a deal.

Alan Fleischmann 

Anyway. Yeah, sorry. I was saying, I imagine as you're talking about what you hope to accomplish for the next month, I hope you also realize what an incredible feat that is that you closed Disney, the Disney parks. And your company's still grew because of all the creative work that you've done on the other areas of this enterprise. I mean, it really, other things flourished at a time when you had to cut back completely. And some of the more iconic areas as well.

Bob Iger 

Well, timing is everything. We were, as you know, intent on launching a direct to consumer television movie service, which became Disney plus. And we bought control of Hulu as part of the Fox acquisition and infusing the Disney plus side with all of our great content, which was a tremendous pivot strategically from licensing to third parties and putting the content on traditional platforms, to taking it completely off third parties and traditional platforms and putting on this new shiny, direct to consumer platform. And thank goodness, we did that when we did it. We launched in November of 19. And so in March of 20, when when we shut everything down, we at least had that. And I think the struggle for the year, aside from closing all the traditional businesses, including our theme park business, and ESPN losing its live sports, etc. The struggle was how do we get production going again, so that we can fuel the platform. Because we just had so much in the can, so much shot. And I must say, if the company, if anyone deserves credit for getting us through this, it's everybody that worked on the creative side, to keep some television and movie production going or finishing some. There were entire movies who were finished. Soul was one. Pete Docter, who runs who Pixar and directed it finished completely during COVID. And that's incredible to think about that—all the animators are working from home, no one is going to work. But we're very, very fortunate that we, one, had the foresight and had the guts and had the support at a board level to go into this new business so that when COVID hit, we at least had something to turn to. And I think it kept the company, it kept the company vibrant. We all—becuase it was a beacon of hope.

Alan Fleischmann 

It's so relevant, so relevant. Yeah.

Bob Iger 

Yeah. And, obviously, it's had a profound impact on the perception of the company and Wall Street because the stock has risen dramatically in the process. And we plummeted when COVID hit because of the shutdown, and rebounded quickly because we continued to grow Disney plus. So my goals, what I hope to accomplish in the last few months this last, this is not even a chapter at this point, it's like a last few pages in a 47 year career, is kind of more of the same, meaning I'm still, you know, looking at shows, and I've got a couple of movie rough cuts coming in this weekend that I'l  look at and give some feedback to the team and script or two to read and always TV shows and trying to exhort everybody to always be at the top of their game, to you know, try really hard to deliver quality, to adhere to the standards that have worked for us so well, in terms of values we infused in our storytelling and, and you know, to both honor the past, but do so in a way that doesn't get in the way of innovation. So, you know, I'm trying to, I'm doing a little bit of teaching a little bit of leading by example, a little bit of cajoling. And I imagine that in these next few months, I'll end up you know, slowly becoming less and less relevant. It is pretty interesting when you suddenly lose that title. You know, your your emails start to slow down. And certainly the phone calls don't come as often and it's pretty clear someone else is running the company, it's actually pretty interesting from it from a human perspective. And I don't mean I don't mean that negatively at all. It's just an interesting dynamic. But, and then hopefully, you know, a little bit of a goodbye tour of places I want to go, I hope to get to hope COVID allows me to say goodbye to people that have been so important in my career, you know, my career and my Disney life. As you mentioned, Shanghai at the beginning, we celebrate our fifth anniversary there this spring. And I'm intent on getting back there and seeing it one more time, you know, as a non civilian and visiting a few other places and maybe a cruise ship.

Alan Fleischmann 

Like you're visiting the troops.

Bob Iger 

Yeah, I guess maybe there's a little bit of that in this, you know.

Alan Fleischmann 

But I love the idea that you will, because it's 27 years, it's pretty extraordinary. And the fact that, you know, you've been such a hands on CEO in every detail, is pretty amazing. I mean, I think it's probably not only important for you personally, but it's probably very important for the morale of the company, you know. And you don't have the negative that comes from being the CEO, in the sense at this point of being, a CEO actually has to carry a lot of the baggage, as you know. You actually, in many ways, are the head of state, as you go through the last, you know, months of the year there, not necessarily how government the same way, which is probably important to remind people the values. And I'd love to spend the next few minutes talking about those, because what I was struck was, Bob, how you are such a values-driven leader. And you know, we've captured a couple of those today on the show, but you know, if you were advising—a lot of our listeners, are CEOs and up-and-coming CEOs or people who are leaders in their own right and pursuing lots of opportunities. And having you on the show here matters a lot. What advice would you give, I mean, this is a difficult time. And it's a time where going back to the way things were is not an option, you know, for somebody who actually has to manage people right now, and possibly in a hybrid environment, you know, what advice would you give them right now to kind of create the kind of culture that's needed to drive us going forward?

Bob Iger 

You know, it's interesting, I think about this a lot. One thing is very, very clear to me. And that is there are so many different components to leadership, it's certainly not one thing, it's not two, it's not five, it's probably at least 10 that are critical. And it ends up being a combination or a collection of all of them, that turn someone into a great leader, and we can talk about a bunch of them. But it's very, very clear to me, and I'm not doing this in any certain order, but that you have to be authentic, you have to be genuine. You can't fake anything. People really spark to someone whose words sound like their words. And then not only do they have meaning, but this sincerity to them, they're real, that's quite important. You have to be candid, you can't hide anything from them. That's really important, too, you have to call things as they are. At the same time, you need to maintain a degree of optimism. So even though you may be making some prediction that out of candor, you know, is somewhat negative, you have to at least exhibit a confidence that we're gonna get through this together, there's a way that we're going, we're gonna deal with this, you know, in an effective way. No one wants to follow a pessimist, I always say, so you have to be an optimist as a leader. It's really important to be focused. People need to know, what are your priorities, what's important. When you convey to them what's important to you, they have a better sense of what should be important to them. That's critical. And you also have to be decisive. You can't deter when it comes to making decisions, collect all the information that you need to make an informed decision, but don't do so over a period of time that creates— that destroys productivity, and just keeps people sitting around waiting for somebody to finally get off their you know what and say what is what we're doing. And so I like to be knowledgeable, I like to be thoughtful when I speak and when I make decisions, which basically means doing your homework and learning enough, but I like to make decisions and then I try not to second guess them too. You can't do much about them once they're done. I like to learn if you've made mistakes, but I don't wallow in them at all. And I don't second guess decisions that we've made. And I try—and by the way, in a business so creatively driven, you better not do that. Because if you start second guessing creativity, which is not subject to math or science, you know, maybe there's some math after the fact just based on how well something did commercially. But you can't measure going in what it's going to do. There's always a risk associated with it. And if you don't let people take risks, and basically figure out how to absorb failure, then you're gonna kill the company's creativity. So I try not to, one, I try not to excoriate people for creative failure. And I certainly try not to second guess their creative decisions. I like accessibility. I like a leader who actually, even though they may manage their time, very carefully and can't see everybody all the time, I like a leader that at least exudes an air of accessibility, that is present on, you know, in a company's headquarters or in headquarters, plural. Headquarters around the world, that shows up and connects with people. And then I guess there's a little bit of politics in that too, and shakes hands and asks people their names and remembers names. It touches people. It's an important motivator for people. One of the things I had to do as a CEO was in managing my time, it's not too many external things. We talked about earlier, you have to be a face of the company, but you got to be at the company, face to the company. Not necessarily to the world, first to the company. All, very, very important. And then I think it's important to—for people to know what your values are, you know, what do you really stand for. You know, and that's a collection of things that become pretty obvious. More and more diversity and inclusion, and creating a workplace where there's equal opportunity. Now, everybody starts from the same place, and everybody has equal ability to succeed just based on how hard they want to work and their talents, and nothing more than that. Really critical. And, you know, I'm throwing a lot of things your way, but—

Alan Fleischmann 

I love this.

Bob Iger 

One more would be, and I talked about this in the book, the relentless pursuit of perfection, which sounds obvious, but. And I use the sushi chef from Jiro in Tokyo as my example, my role model, because when I first met him and went to his restaurant, he was 88. And he was still trying to get better as a sushi chef. And yet, he had three Michelin stars and was renowned for being perhaps the best in the world. And he's still going to work every day trying to improve his game. And I love that. I love the notion of never accepting, certainly not never accepting mediocrity, but of always working to turn something that's good into something that's great. Because we know in our business, and this is probably true for most businesses, that quality is everything. And if people, interestingly enough, often focus on quantity of the quantitative side, how much money you earn on something, or whatever. But if you make something great, if something is of great quality, the quantitative side, always, always follows always. And so I try not to even focus on that. I focus on what is it we're making? How good is it? How great can it be? And once we achieve that, then we know everything else will be great. Everything else will fall on the line.

Alan Fleischmann 

This is amazing, actually, it's wonderful. I think, you know, what you're sharing here, you know, it's so important. The internal part is a big deal. You know, how do you actually show people the culture and you do. I mean communicating, I guess, is the other thing that you would argue. You can under communicate, but you can't over communicate as long as it's authentic. Yeah.

Bob Iger 

Yeah. And look, I really like showing up for people. And that means—and a lot of things that go into that it's traveling, it's getting off your—and flying to the other side of the world to show up for people, it's important to do that, particularly in tough times. You know, and I, you know, I know a number of when a gigantic hurricane hit Florida, you know, you hop on a plane, you go down there right away, people can't get into their driveways, because trees are down and power is out and people are holed up in our hotels because they can't fly anywhere. And you got to show up for that. Going to Japan, going to Tokyo right after the earthquake hit Northern Japan, which just was jarring to those people and that society overall. Being there for that, and, you know, going to New York and being with the ABC News people in the wake of 9/11. Anyway, I can think of a number of examples of just being there for people at a time when they are the most vulnerable and need it the most. But it's also beeing there day after day. It's eating in the company cafeterias and you know walking to other buildings and not having every meeting in your office. I could probably go on and on but. And trying to be the first to work, try to be the first at work.

Alan Fleischmann 

One of the things I loved in your Masterclass was that you were the first at work, which is amazing.

Bob Iger 

Typically when I'm in LA—well Burbank is where our offices are.

Alan Fleischmann 

This way, I guess also, you know that one of the things I was thinking about when I was hearing that you were the first in the office and turn the coffeepot on, is you're also have to deal with other time zones. So being you know, that's where, you know, if you're dealing with the East Coast and Asia and Europe, and you're constantly dealing, your you know, your day, you wanted to get home for dinner was another thing I heard, you know, you would get home in time to be with family when the boys are home. And that's also pretty impressive also, but you needed to communicate with the world early on. You had to be in the office, but you said. Yeah.

Bob Iger 

I'm among the first in the building, certainly on our floor, I do my turn, I literally turn the coffee machine on. I'm proud of myself for that. Yeah, I juggle a lot of time zones. I did in the CEO role, less so today. But yes, that is helpful to be there early and not have the people that are there in China, you know, three in the morning just for you, but we work on their time. That's very helpful and respectful. And I, you know, I was asked a lot over the years, particularly by employees about work life balance. And I tried to set an example there easier for a CEO, obviously, because I'm not working for anybody but a board. But I like people to see me leave at a reasonable time. So I can get home to have dinner with my family. And I wanted them to know, it didn't mean I wasn't going to get to hit the books and start working again, after dinner. That was almost always the case. But it was perfectly fine for me to get up and, you know, leave the office at six o'clock if I had been there since 6:30 in the morning.

Alan Fleischmann 

I get a strong sense, Bob, that you do balance family, and that you do get a strong sense that you work, you know, harder than anybody, and that you put the hours in, but you're not afraid to tell people that you want to be home with family, you're not afraid to tell people you;re going to grab a show, that you're actually to watch something also to kind of unwind, you know that it's okay to actually read. And it's okay to actually watch the show and escape besides being with your loved ones.

Bob Iger 

Well also go to your kids basketball game or show up for the Christmas concert, that's probably a bad example, because it always hit me at a certain time of year where it was very hard for me. I missed a bunch of Christmas concerts. My wife did most of that. But those sorts of things and let other people know it's okay to do that. Heavens, we work in a world particularly what we've learned this last year where you're tied almost all the time to your job. And there are ways you can time shift in an effective way that gives you the ability and should to manage your personal life a little bit better than perhaps, you know, our fathers and mothers used to be able to manage there's, again, not easy for everybody. But it's an important example to set.

Alan Fleischmann 

Why this has been so amazing. I wish we had two hours, I will say, having you on this show, probably in your case needs to be two shows, so we should have you back. But there's going to be a lot of folks who are going to really appreciate this because you know, the listeners here are looking for ways to look and appreciate the journey that got you where you are, but also to capture the wisdom of where you go from here. And I think that a lot of people that are rooting for you to have, again, your best days are yet to come. And I think knowing you, as I'm getting to know and really seeing how you approach leadership, there's no question. You may slow down a little bit trying to figure out what that next chapter will look like or chapters but I'm a pretty big believer The best is yet to come. So thank you, Bob. Thank you.

Bob Iger 

That's very nice of you. I've enjoyed this discussion.

Alan Fleischmann 

Because we need you right now and your leadership matters.

Bob Iger 

Nice of you. Thank you very much.