Danielle Butin
Founder and CEO, Afya Foundation
Author, Wild Hope Now
I believe that action is the antidote for trauma. And Afya acts over and over and over again in really powerful ways.
Summary
This week on Leadership Matters, Alan was joined by Danielle Butin, the Founder and CEO of the Afya Foundation, a nonprofit that works around the world to deliver critical medical supplies to regions in need.
Over the course of their conversation, Danielle shared how her upbringing in New York influenced her career path, her early career experiences and how one trip to Tanzania inspired her to create the Afya Foundation. Danielle also discussed her recent book, Wild Hope Now, which explores the founding of Afya and outlines some of its achievements to date, as well as the many lessons in leadership she’s learned along the way.
Mentions & Resources in this Episode
Guest Bio
Danielle Butin, MPH, OTR is the Founder and Executive Director of the Afya Foundation, a medical supply recovery organization located in Yonkers, NY. Since its inception in late 2007, Afya has shipped several hundred 40-foot containers packed with recovered humanitarian and medical supplies to more than seventy countries globally. In 2014, the New York State Senate recognized Ms. Butin as a Woman of Distinction for her role in using local medical resources and volunteers to promote global health. In 2017, she was presented with the Woman of Distinction Award from the City of Yonkers.
In placing community at the forefront of its work, Afya has established several programs to aid people in the New York area. In 2010, Ms. Butin was awarded the Eli Lilly Welcome Back Award for Afya’s special prevocational programs for at-risk populations, which provide the opportunity for local men and women to work on skill-development at the Afya warehouse with Occupational Therapy students. In 2011, Ms. Butin received the Lamed Vavnik Award from the J-Teen Leadership in New York for Afya’s educational and volunteer programs for high school students, and she is frequently invited to lecture at college campuses to discuss medical waste recovery. Afya provides engagement opportunities to local folks of all ages and backgrounds, to build community at home while supporting health abroad.
In 2015, Ms. Butin’s leadership role in the Ebola Relief efforts in Sierra Leone was recognized and awarded by Voices of African Mothers and at the Clinton Global Initiative annual meeting. In 2015, she also received the Brava Smart CEO Award. Ms Butin’s story, and Afya’s incredible work, has been featured in Real Simple Magazine, MORE Magazine, Family Circle Magazine, on the Katie Couric Show and on Good Life Project radio. The Afya foundation has been covered by national sources such as The New York Times and the Washington Post, and various initiatives have been highlighted by local news sources.
Before starting the Afya Foundation, Ms. Butin was the Director of Health Services for the East Region of Senior and Retiree Services for United Health Care. In this role, she provided health service leadership for the East Region of the Medicare line of business, which served approximately 300,000 Medicare Members in NY, Ohio and Rhode Island. Prior to her role at United, Ms. Butin was the Manager of the Health Promotion and Wellness Department at Oxford Health Plans, which served approximately 80,000 Medicare members in NY. In the Medicare Division of Oxford Health Plans, Ms. Butin developed a number of innovative health screening, self-management and wellness programs. Ms. Butin has received national recognition and awards for her leadership in the development of health education programs and materials. She served as a board member for the National HMO Workgroup on Care Management for 8 years, and continues to serve on the advisory board for Practice Change Fellows, a grant sponsored mentoring program to develop national leaders in geriatric care.
Ms. Butin received her Masters in Public Health with a specialization in Geriatrics and Gerontology at Columbia University and her B.S. in Occupational Therapy from New York University. She is currently an adjunct faculty member at Columbia University.
Transcript
Alan Fleischmann
I'm joined today by an experienced healthcare professional and the leader of a nonprofit organization working to improve healthcare outcomes in the developing nations and communities around the world. Danielle Butin is the founder and CEO of Afya Foundation, an organization that secures unused medical supplies and distributes them to international communities in need. Prior to founding Afya Foundation, Danielle worked at Oxford Health Plans, where she started as an occupational therapist before becoming a manager of health promotion and wellness for the Medicare Division. She then worked in the United Health Group before taking a life-changing trip to Tanzania, which encouraged her to found and create Afya. Danielle and the Afya Foundation have received numerous recognitions for their work, including from Eli Lilly with their Welcome Back Award, the Voices of African Mothers and the Clinton Global Initiative for her leadership in Sierra Leone's Ebola relief efforts. And she has also been honored with the Bravo Smart CEO award.
Danielle is also the author of Wild Hope Now, a collective of inspirational stories detailing some of the Afya Foundation's many successes. I'm excited to have her on the show to discuss her fascinating career, recent book, and the many lessons in leadership she's learned along the way.
I should also let you know that I went to camp with Danielle, many, many years ago, and I've been a fan of her career and her journey ever since. I was just saying to her before the show started, that there's some people in life that energize you and there are others in life that can be a little energy draining. Danielle is one of those people that fills people with hope and inspiration and action. She truly energizes people to action all over the world. So great to have you.
Danielle Butin
So wonderful to be here.
Alan Fleischmann
It's really fun for me too. Well, let's start with your early life and your upbringing. You grew up in Scarsdale, New York. Tell us a little bit about growing up there. What life was like around the house? What did your parents do? You have three two sisters. I know. So tell us a little bit about your sisters, and anything else that you'd want to know or we'd want to know about the special community that you grew up in and I really do have this strong feeling. You know, watching your mother just be this beacon of joy and energy and hope. Who just shows that age does not define you. And I think of your sisters as being a big part of your life and all the nephews and nieces around you guys. So just tell us a little bit about what it was like growing up in Scarsdale with your mom and dad.
Danielle Butin
So we actually started on the Upper West Side of Manhattan when I was young. And then we moved to Harrison and then we went from Harrison to Scarsdale. When I was about 11, my parents divorced. My father was Swiss and my mother is American and it was time for them to part ways and rediscover a new way in both of their lives. And when we moved to Scarsdale, Alan it was really interesting for the three of us. I am one of three girls, we spent a lot of time solidifying ourselves socially, in the fabric of Scarsdale. It was an interesting new community for us. And our house was busy and always filled with people, always. And there was something about community that mattered deeply to me and to my sisters, and our mother set the pace. And so school was far less interesting to me than or something about the confines of structured learning. And, it felt it continues to at times to me, contrived when it is overly structured. And so school was tough. Scarsdale is an extraordinary school district, but it was not fitting a need, I had to fly free and my mother saw it. And instead of restricting me she found ways for me to self express that wasn't necessarily being fostered in school and there was a game changing moment for me in Scarsdale High School where Sue Syllabary, this extraordinary literature teacher ran a class in aging. And my experience in aging had been a complete adoration of my grandfather, my mother's father began and ended the world for me and I couldn't have enough of him.
Alan Fleischmann
Your grandfather, I remember I mean we're talking about now many years ago, wasn't Carousel his creation wasn't he this amazing, amazing…?
Danielle Butin
Yes. Or he was See, he brought many shows to Broadway. I mean, in their attic were the original Brigadoon costumes, he was extraordinary. And so of course, aging made sense. And it fit, because I loved him so deeply and dearly. And in this course, we needed to go and visit and I write about this story in Wild Hope Now, we had to go visit a nursing home, and I was so distraught over how older adults are treated. And one was screaming as they were bringing her to the shower. And all I could think of was, “Is this a Holocaust survivor? And is she from Europe, and to have such a dramatic response?” It created a multitude of questions for me. And it also created just an enormous response to how people were being treated at the time. And this was many years ago.
And I came home and sobbed with my mother on the stairs in the hall saying I can't believe how people are treated as they get older. And instead of coddling me, she said, “If you don't like it, do something about it.” And that was the best response she could have ever given me, she activated me. And I'm very fortunate to have a mother who has found ways early in my life for me to fly free for me to find ways to lead. And for me to hear from her over and over again, then do something about what disturbs you. And the inherent message in that is you are capable of fixing this. And that was the beginning. That was the beginning of a deep dive, I became an occupational therapist, I worked in aging for at least 20 years of my life, and I love working with older adults. I think it's an honor to be part of someone's final passage. And, then that changed. But it began with her whispering capacity at a very young age.
Alan Fleischmann
It's amazing. I've said on the show before that, I've had the great fortune of holding the hands of many loved ones when they pass on. And I do consider it to be an extraordinary experience and honor. And you can't call it a joy because it's deeply sad. But there's something, it's a privilege of some sort, when you hold the hands of someone you love, and you make it easier for them. Because it's a struggle coming into the world. And it's a struggle leaving the world and knowing well and loved on their way to the next. Just like it's important to be there with lots of level the way when you come in. We seem to embrace the beginnings of someone's life, but we seem to be frightened. But the ones when He comes to us, you know, when we come to old age and the last chapter of their lives, or this life, at least, depending on how you think. That's beautiful you are describing. So you went even though you did like to spread the structure of school, which I totally get. You did go to some pretty amazing places. You went to NYU, and you went to Columbia University. So it wasn't like you didn't take on the academics.
Danielle Butin
No, no. But once I was awakened to what I loved, I was hungry for information, then I became an active learner. But it was you know, I studied occupational therapy undergrad at NYU and found my calling. There was something so powerful for me there, becoming an occupational therapist and learning that your best agent for change is yourself in someone's life and how you thoughtfully and gently enter that story. And help that person to retell it after a traumatic event after people become chronically ill. It is a retelling of a story. And I think that is so incredibly powerful and moving. And I found my way there. And then I went on to Colombia to get my Masters in Public Health. Because I wanted to scale and I knew that the programs I was building and the ideas that I had, for how aging could be supported, needed better structure, and I needed to understand it better. So once the learning became relevant to what I wanted as a career, and I was passionate about it. I couldn't stop. I read everything. I engaged in everything I went to every conference I could. I was beyond curious. I mean, I still am beyond curious. But at that point, I found myself in a completely different environment of learning.
Alan Fleischmann
That's so cool. And was the first job after Columbia Oxford Health?
Danielle Butin
No, well, my first job after becoming an occupational therapist was at what is now New York Presbyterian Behavioral Health Center. It is a large psychiatric hospital in Westchester County in New York. I was there for over 10 years. You learn at a speed dating pace there about working with people who are struggling with psychiatric illness. And how, how you can use yourself in the most therapeutic way imaginable. And that set the course for the rest of my career. There's nothing like being trained by some of the best and the brightest in psychiatric treatment, in terms of how you package that and move that forward in your own leadership.
Alan Fleischmann
And you did that for 10 years?
Danielle Butin
I did. I really loved it there.
Alan Fleischmann
Where did you go from there?
Danielle Butin
From there, I did a lot of consultative work in aging. I went into community practice, I wrote grants, I remember, I had a lot of ideas. I am an “ideas” person. So I see possibilities everywhere. And then I figure out “how am I going to bring these possibilities to life?” One idea I had was that the caregivers of a loved one with dementia needed an opportunity to learn the tactics of functioning and how relatedness can work with the cognitive decline of this disease. And the New York State Department of Health funded us bringing together couples and modeling for the caregiver ways to set up tasks to respond when things are difficult, how to hold your loved one went ballroom dancing, I remember one time we created a dancing night for them, and just helping couples to find their way to holding each other again, and laughing. And being a twosome again, it was so gorgeous. But I did a lot of that kind of work. And then I was teaching at Columbia. And I was approached to consider starting a department at Oxford Health times in health promotion and wellness for their Medicare line of business.
And at first I thought I cannot I cannot imagine working in corporate healthcare. But they said to me, we will give you a budget to enact all of these possibilities you walk around with in your head that you think could really work. And they were true to their word. And it was Alan, we created programs that had such powerful impact that Obama used it. GAO testimony was created from it in terms of shaping health care packages and health care reform. And we studied the impact of the work we were doing with older adults there in tremendous detail, and I loved it, I loved it. And then I loved innovating. What happened in Flushing was different from what happened in Harlem. And it was different from what happened on the Upper East Side, because people are so unique and how they seek out and use and trust healthcare. And it's regional. And I was very sensitive to that. And my schooling at both NYU and Columbia heightened that sensitivity to that subtlety of program design. And then United acquired Oxford, and it was more about scaling, because you've noted it is such an enormous healthcare company. And I'm a much better leader than I am a soldier. So it was time to go.
Alan Fleischmann
How long were you there when you realized that?
Danielle Butin
I'd say it was maybe two years when I saw the difference, and it's a big difference working for a national health care company is very different from working for a regional one.
Alan Fleischmann
Was a trip to Tanzania somewhere in there?
Danielle Butin
So I was downsized. It was a mutual downsizing from United, and I did something that my family said “what are you doing?” I decided that the only thing that made sense with three children at sleepaway camp at the time was to go to Africa. And I was not going to have another chance to do this. And I was being recruited by headhunters for leadership positions in aging, both in the for profit and the non for profit sectors. And I said I have to go. I had been wanting to go to Africa, Alan, for years, I had started collecting African art around my home. Something switched on in me that that rational thought can't fully comprehend, but I trusted this draw to it, and I went for it. And so here I was being drawn to beautiful artifacts and treasures. And I said I have to go for whatever reason I have to go and I booked the ticket to Tanzania. And there's my fabulous mother who kept saying “go, find the possibility saying your divorce mother. You're a divorced mother of three children. You just left a high paying executive position. You don't have a job, what are you doing?” I said, “I'm just trusting myself.” And I think that's one of my, when I'm asked, What are some of the tenants of making this work? You have to trust the voice inside of you. And it said, go to Africa and I followed it. And there was the launch of Afya waiting for me in the Serengeti plains. I mean, it was literally that was exactly where I needed to be to launch this entire, profound next chapter of my work life.
Alan Fleischmann
And how long were you there?
Danielle Butin
I was in Tanzania for a few weeks. I literally landed at first in Nairobi before we bounced over to Kilimanjaro airport, and I remember landing and bursting into tears. I knew there was something bigger than me waiting for me. I had no idea what that looked like. But I knew I knew it was going to be major and I burst into tears. Halfway into the trip, I am in the Serengeti plains. The sun is setting. It's this gorgeous, orange that is unmatched in this world. And I see a woman crying, like shaking, crying alone in the tent near where people were gathering for dinner. And I sat down next to her and she had a glass of wine in her hands. And I said, “what's happening? And are you okay?” And I'm a terrible bystander. I mean, I can't I can't watch people in trouble. I can't watch them suffer and not like insert and find a way to be helpful in any way that I possibly can be. It just doesn't fit me. And so she said, I'm not okay. I am the woman's health physician in London. I came here to do medical mission work. I am here for three months. There are no medical supplies in any of the clinics where I'm working. I'm watching children die, I'm watching wounds become septic. I have nothing to clean or treat these wounds. I have no IV starter kits. I saw EKG leads, but there's no power and there's no power so there’s no EKG. So what's the point? And she just threw her head down on the table and sobbed. And I remember just sitting there with her. And there is no fixing this, there is nothing you know, it was just about being an accompaniment to her moment, but it hit me dramatically. And it was more than just another moment of random collision and you have a big compassionate response and you just hold space with someone this was “Danielle do something, anything” like not do something like fix the entire supply chain of the world because I I'm not that delusional, but it is more about what can you do to start to change this story. And that was the beginning of Afya and Afya means health in Swahili. I can't tell you how many people say to me, Alan, that name makes no sense. But I don't care because it's my, it is a spiritual hat tip to the land that whispered this work. And I will never change the name of Afya. Because it carries the breadth of its inception and where it began.
Alan Fleischmann
That's amazing. So you do on that show coming back, you're fundamentally going to start something new.
Danielle Butin
Fundamentally. I read Tracy Kidder’s book about Paul Farmer, who I ended up working with many years later. And I was beyond inspired. I couldn't stop. I finished the book on the plane, and then came home and called Ophelia Dahl. I cold called Ophelia Dahl and said to her, I finished the book, I'm going to start this work in New York, I have no idea what I'm about to find. I'm going to rescue medical supplies, and I need a trainer. I need someone to teach me the ropes.
So here's one of those pieces: we all should be taking inventory of our skill set and what we really trust to be true and, and sit with it and let it breathe. And I knew I knew how to lead. I knew how to innovate. I knew how to inspire and get people on board with my work. I had plenty of experience with that. I knew nothing about warehousing and supplies and international customs and trucking. But you know what, you can learn that stuff. You can't really learn how to inspire no matter how many classes you take. You either believe deeply and passionately about what you're doing, or you don't and I could learn the other stuff. And so I uninvited, went into the tunnels of the best and brightest hospitals of New York City and everybody's screaming, “Lady lady, what are you doing here? What do you do?” going in the garbage and I was not Alan, I was not in the blood contaminated rooms, you can't get in those and I never wanted to go in those. But what I saw were tunnels and tunnels of stretchers that were being replaced and laundry bins filled with consumable supplies that were still well within expiration date. And I said, “What do you guys do with all this stuff?” and “they said, we throw it away.” And then I started to dig in. And I learned that we are the only country in the world that does this. So if there is a surgery, and there's a back table of supplies, and because and not touched and not contaminated, just the what if supplies, if they're untouched, they get thrown away, because they were in the room breathing with the patient. And we understand that not to be sterile. So there is an opportunity that is worth billions in this country now to rescue from unnecessary environmental contamination and waste, and redirect these items to sites that are in desperate need. And that was all I had to say.
Alan Fleischmann
I love that. And did you find among the men of women one of the great things, you're a great mentor to others? That's part of your DNA. That's a great part of your leadership. Who are the great mentors to you as you started this?
Danielle Butin
That's such a good question. I picked people with skill sets. So the country director for Partners in Health Lune took me under her wing and taught me everything that Haiti would and would not need. She taught me the ropes around the supplies. Lee Perlman, who runs the greater New York Hospital Association has been extraordinary in helping me understand systems, you know, how hospitals were. What's realistic? What's not realistic? He has been extraordinary. And I'd also say that there was a leader of international interventions and disasters at the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee, Judy, me, and Judy was unbelievable with me from the start. And I'm, you know, fast forward. I've been doing this for 16 years. And right before COVID, the Harvard Business School alum, does pro bono work. And they offered to work with us on a project. And the team lead is Jonathan Bloom. And he walked in, and I watched him lead these meetings, and invite the entire room to contribute. And I studied him and I thought, This man has something that is extraordinary, and how he leads, and how he strategically sees, and I need to learn from him. And he has been my mentor since and it is a place where I can be vulnerable, honest, and get extraordinary, thoughtful, emotional, emotionally well matched strategic advice. And it is the best learning and the best mentoring I could have ever imagined and wished for and Jonathan's older than I. So here I am back in that place. I want to work with brilliant, beautiful, having lived a big juicy life-elders, and I am learning fiercely from one right now.
Alan Fleischmann
And how did you decide who should be on the team?
Danielle Butin
On my team? Yeah. It came together slowly. I made a lot of mistakes. I I grabbed everyone I knew who I liked and said, Just come work with me. I need help. But in the beginning, I mean, it was like chaos. I literally, I think back on those days, I would beg my children not to go to school and help me pack a container. You know, I was the only mother in Hastings High School in New York saying please don't go to school. I'm calling my kids in sick. I need to get stuff out to Haiti today. So the beginning was really tough. And then I got better at figuring out what the physicians were that I needed the most help from.
And I got really specific with how to round it out. And if I had those folks, what could I delegate that I'm currently doing all of and I have an incredible senior management team now who allow me to do a lot of the rainmaking for Aafia and bringing people to our work and inspiring people to become partners and get involved. And they are running the programs, the operations in the warehouse mean, we have an inventory management system. When I started off, everything was in a composition book, we graduated to an Excel spreadsheet. And then we became this highly productive organization. I mean, we have shipped well over 13 million pounds of medical supplies worldwide since we started. So this team helps me to do what I can do best. And that's to constantly innovate. And no matter what, find ways to help when we are needed, and it's literally no matter. We are not bogged down by bureaucracy. And that was something that was really important to me in making this set of hires, who I'm working with now, is you all have to see the way in everyone who comes off you have to be able to articulate a plan for helping. And I remember, we are about, we're a staff of about 28 right now. But the senior team is five and everyone is responsible for their area of practice and output.
Alan Fleischmann
Well, that's cool. And all of it and how many of you have overseas versus in the US?
Danielle Butin
Everyone is here. So here's our model, we have easily 45,000 square feet of warehouse space in Westchester County, New York. The greening effort of Afya is unbelievable. So all of these supplies instead of being discarded or being donated to us, and then we have teams organizing, and this is a beautiful part of Afya’s model, and this is where being an occupational therapist really comes in. When we started with the volunteer program. The biggest question I asked was, who needs the experience of helping as much as I need the help? And that creates a completely different result. And so we started reaching out to residential facilities, the Cottage School of Jewish child care, the children's village in Westchester County for kids living in a residential facility. We spread it out to community treatment programs for people with autism for people with IDD. And then I started to create this occupational therapy student training program. And all of these folks who have never had a chance to help come to Afya and sort supplies, along with college students, corporations, lots of corporations do giving back and service related functions with Afya and are big supporters of our work. Regeneron and MasterCard are incredible partners for Afya. And then all of a sudden this program exists, and people are experiencing transformation in their own lives. And it is because they've been invited to altruism, they've been invited to give back the Westchester County Jail, we're bringing supplies in there for people who are incarcerated, to practice altruism, and to give back as well. And there was one day I was in the jail, and we were at a sporting event there. And it was a young offenders unit. And I said to them, you know, the best level of giving in this world is what I need to give to people you're never going to know. So your hands are in the supplies, everything you're sorting right now will probably go to the Ukraine frontline, because we only sent to the infrastructure of the health system, that the land that we're helping, we don't we don't do teams flying in our work is really grounded in strengthening the infrastructure. And I said, “How does that make you feel?” And he looked at me and he said, I feel like a hero. And it was, this is like, welcome to altruism and to the healing balm of this. So that's a really important part of 1000s of people are involved, Alan, in giving back through Afya because we need so many volunteers to go through the volume, the massive volume of inventory that's donated to us.
Alan Fleischmann
I think, you know, the fact that you're getting other people to be part of the efforts not just you doing it was a small community, but you're expanding it so that the community is truly from all elements of society and it keeps growing I guess to your your partners are changing your you know, the altruism is becoming much more scaled. And the impact on the other side, do they know that it's coming from more and more people? I mean, are they getting the fact that this is a movement, almost anything else that they're really part of that they're appreciated, respected by the many, not just the few.
Danielle Butin
That's such a good question. When we meet with partners, we tell them. My wish is that people in Ghana and Malawi and South Africa and Tanzania and the Caribbean, all of a sudden walk in and see the supplies on the shelves, and all of a sudden their health center becomes one they can trust. You know, when I was in Haiti, years ago, there was a woman who said to me, she'd been disabled from the 2010 earthquake. I walked up to her and I said, “I want to talk to you about what you need, and how we can help you.” And she looked at me, she said, “What do you think I deserve?” And I said, “I think you deserve everything that you're going to need to be independent again. So let's start walking through every single task you do so that we can figure this out together.” And so I'm, I'm viscerally aware of dignity, and the integrity of people who are living in poverty, and how desperate finding health care is for them. So I wanted to just show up. But our partners, I often say to our partners on the ground, “these supplies are precious by the time they arrive, they're almost priceless, because we are having this enormous environmental crusade in New York with supplies.” And then people who rarely get a chance to help are being asked to help. So by the time they come to you, it's like, they're almost like, they're covered in like this golden magical Star Dust, because of all that has preceded their final arrival. And we don't send anything that people haven't asked us for. So the needs of folks on the ground, trumps all else for us in terms of what the packing list is going to look like, and how we're going to help.
Alan Fleischmann
That's cool. And if you thought of that, I mean, I'm sure people have asked you that, doing something similar in the US?
Danielle Butin
Yes, but I feel like as much as we get from New York, I feel like we're just at the tip of the iceberg with opportunity here. So I want to dig really deep into New York. And this is a personal partnership, you know, for the for hospitals to trust that you're going to do, what you say you're going to do, and do it well, is building a relationship, it's very different from, I'm going to come in and supply your greeters at the front desk. And I have a crew of folks that we can rotate through this is we're going to pick the stuff up, we're going to do right by you, if you need supplies, for sites that you're working in abroad, please find us I mean, it is a intensive, connected relationship that we build with these hospitals. And I'm far more fascinated by what can happen in New York, if every single institution is donating to Afyia and we have deep processes, so that everyone from the labs, to OB-GYN to the ER are all systematically involved and donate. And that's an enormous project and process.
Alan Fleischmann
I love that. And then tell me a little bit about the book, I have a funny feeling that the book was something in, in your mind and in your heart for a while. And then one day, I gotta imagine that you actually had the book project probably actively engaged in your mind and your heart for a long time. And so the book was forthcoming. But then what made you go, I have to write my book, to I'm writing my book, to, I got to write my book.
Danielle Butin
Yes, that's a great question. Um, I started by writing stories. Everyone kept saying to me, you have to write a book like I would come back from. I came back from Lesbos, Greece with refugees arriving, and I would come back from Haiti after cholera and I, it was one story after another, but these stories were extraordinary. Alan, it was one transformative moment after another that really, really, it. I believe that action is the antidote for trauma. And Afya acts over and over and over again, in really powerful ways. And so I was writing it, and I was writing stories, and a dear friend of mine is Seth Godin. And Seth, a prolific writer, said these stories don't sound like you at all. The woman I know when she speaks is not the person on paper. And I said, “Well, how am I going to bridge that? And he said, start dictating and then edit the dictation of the story” and that was such a brilliant recommendation. And then the stories just flowed out of me. Literally. I just walked around it As if I were telling someone a story of what happened, what happened during COVID, what happened at the beginning of the Ukraine War, and it just started to happen, the spigot opened. And then I edited and worked with a dear, dear friend and beautiful writer, Hayley Tanner, on polishing the stories, and it was ready. And Seth said, and my daughter did the sketch on the cover of rain boots, which is emblematic in that story of how Afya thinks the cover is a bright orange to honor that gorgeous sunset. And Seth helped me to bring it forward. And it's only available on Afya’s website. Right now. It is an extraordinary collection, I think of stories that as you're reading it, you can't believe these are real, but they're all real. And what they do is inspire each of us to A. find and build any and all connections that matter. And B. inspired to find your way to yours. I mean, mine are mine. And we each have this capacity to connect to people in really, really beautiful, simple ways. And if nothing else, I hope the book inspires people to find theirs. But they are more than invited to join ours. I mean, literally, one of the things that people say to me is, I love coming here, because every single person has something to contribute to your work. And this organization finds ways to put those interests or those skills to use really quickly. And that's that's one of our that's like, that's the one that's part of our sauce. It is just welcoming people in what do you love to do? What are you good at and putting them to work on our behalf?
Alan Fleischmann
We should tell people that the way to get the book then is afyafoundation.org. So “afya.org”. And there's a section on the website that goes right into the book. And then you and then you go right you see the book that has a wonderful, beautiful orange cover with the boots. And then you can just buy a book. And the cool thing about the book is that all the proceeds of the book go to the Foundation, which is awesome.
Danielle Butin
Yeah, just to support our work.
Alan Fleischmann
Yes. Yeah, that's great, say, so people should know that AFYAfoundation.org is how you get the book, and the book is worth getting big time. So I would definitely recommend it, it is a tassel story that would be inspiring and filled with hope. Because I believe I think we're living in a time where, you know, I'm very close to Jane Goodall, as you know, I do a lot of work with her. I feel that she's such an inspiration. You know, here, she took all the work that she did in Africa and all the work to do with chimpanzees. And she made hope a verb. I always say that about her, she made her verb, you know, where and in the midst of darkness, she always brings light. And I think we've got a lot in the world right now that brings us and maybe also, because of social media, you know, we're bucketed. And we're pushed by different algorithms. And we only see the same things we want to see. And we also somewhat see the things we don't want to see too often. But it brings us to a place where we're “on” all the time. And where we can see even the elections that are unfolding, not just in this country, but all over the world, that there's a fearful moment where you're like, where's the world going? Are there trends, divided nations, divided communities, divided countries, divided regions, and then yet, there are things like what you're doing, and there are things that you're doing by expanding that sense of altruism, that you can be a leader among many, and not necessarily be the Founder and CEO.
I'm really obsessed with, like, you know, I, I've always been what people always say they want to be the boss, or they want to be the founder, or they want to be the CEO, and they're not all made for that way. And I am an entrepreneur and obviously started my own firm, we went global. And many, many people come to me and they ask me for advice, I want to do what you're doing. And I would say 99% of them shouldn't do it, that there's this business 1% That should and that but there's a huge, huge percentage of people who can work with that entrepreneur, be entrepreneurial, or be that giver, they don't have to be a billionaire and help others give and be that operator but and help others operate because without them, nothing gets done. And I really believe that if people find that that's their calling, that that's their voice, it expands that hope that verb and makes us actually more hopeful. But tell somebody that actually would invite that bright light, you know, that we would invite that hope to be able to stay there would give people a chance to know that with their involvement with you. With everybody with the foundation, they can actually find more bright lights.
Danielle Butin
so I'm going to tell two stories. One is more of a system-story. And the other is something that happened with one of our volunteers. So shortly after the 2010 earthquake in Haiti, cholera showed up. And now you have Port-au-Prince as a tented city, no one is living indoors, it is catastrophic. Hundreds of 1000s died. And then 1000s and 1000s were disabled. And now cholera shows up. And no one knows how to manage cholera. And we were doing a lot of work with Sean Penn's camp. And it was a golf course with 75,000 people squatting on a private golf course. And we often went when we were in Haiti to the headquarters there, and looked at the whiteboard, and the whiteboard, listed all the supplies they needed. And all of a sudden, with cholera showing up, there were these thousands and thousands of body bags listed on the whiteboard. And all I could think of was we don't do death, we manage how people can live and survive through disease and trauma. And so I kept saying to the staff there, we have to find the root, we have to fix the root. This is just the bandaid and the body bag is simply a result of not treating people and with rehydration, and with IV solution people can get through cholera. And I said, I'm not getting the body bags, I'm going to go figure out how to get treatment for cholera. And that's what should be on your bulletin board is to fix the root of the problem. And so I went back to the hotel we were staying where the woman I mentioned, Judy, and I met was there with a joint at the time. And Judy is having a coffee and smoking a cigarette and I'm undone on the way to the hotel, I saw people being dragged, literally people who had died being dragged to the mayor's house, and they were leaving their dead loved ones on the front lawn to force the mayor to make a decision and to tell people what to do about cholera. And I sat down next to her and I said, I need you to fund two containers that I want to go home and pack immediately to Haiti filled with supplies that can treat cholera. And she looked at me and I lost it. Alan, what you're not supposed to do with a funder, I lost it. I am. I am losing it. I am undone. And I feel like you have to help me here. And she said, I'll do it. You just got your funding. Take a deep breath. I run upstairs to call Lee Perlman my Greater New York Hospital Association angel. And at this point, I'm sobbing. And I'm sobbing and he's screaming “Stop it, stop it. What do you need?” and I said “I need you to help me fill 80 feet of container space with lactated ringer and IV starter kits. So we can save people in Haiti.” and he said “Okay.” The next week, it was all packed up. It was delivered to Haiti and Sean Penn's team had a military hospital, military hospital helicopters and a multitude of means of transportation. And they got it all into the central plateau and the order prints. And by working together, all pieces vitally important, we save 20,000 people's lives. And so that was about the best of each coming together.
Albeit I lost my mind for a moment in time there. But it was a gorgeous way of how– I'm not interested in the body bags, I'm interested in figuring out the route. And if we figure out the route, then we're not going to need these body bags. And so supplies, the right supplies at the right time, can catalyze everything. And that is essential to how Afya works. So that's one.
The second is there was a young man who had processing deficits and was depressed and anxious who came to volunteer with us through a treatment program. And he walked into the office one day, they said, Danielle, Danielle, I really need to make money, I have to get a job. Anthony, okay. But I understand that you go to the day treatment program, and you're living with your parents. So tell me more about why you need money now. And he said, “I've never gone on a date with a girl. He was in his late 20s, early 30s. I want to go on a date and you need money for a date and I need to make money so I can go on a date.” And I said Okay, so tell me where you think would be a good match for you. I think I could get a job at Home Depot and work in a warehouse. So we trained him in our warehouse, how to pull inventory, how to stock shelves. He was great. We wrote a letter recommendation he got the job at Home Depot. Okay, two months later, we all gave him a big hug goodbye. We're so proud of him and thrilled for him. Two months later, it's a rainy Saturday. I'm running in the city, between LA and Broadway Dance where my girls had danced for years. And I saw a man in a gray suit under an awning. And it's Anthony. And I said, Anthony, you look so handsome, where are you going, and then I looked down, and I see a bouquet of flowers in his hands. And he said, “Danielle, I'm going on my date, I got my first date. And I got flowers because I understand girls love flowers.” And to see the full circle of this beautiful man who had volunteered with us. And his story coming to an entirety of what he had wished for, was exquisite. So there are two very different stories. One is you come to Afya, and you can make your life and world possible because we'll see it with you. And we'll do everything in our power to make it real. And the second is, doing this work is not about coveting. Doing this work is about finding the best partners possible, and everyone coming to the table together to create mammoth, massive change.
Alan Fleischmann
I love that. And also, again, you're expanding your community with everything you're doing.
Danielle Butin
Yes
Alan Fleischmann
You know, this idea that, you know, you're you know, that's not part of your normal day to day helping someone get a job. That's a bit but you've you saw an opportunity and you've struck and said, Okay, we can be helpful here, which is pretty extraordinary. Yeah, I love that. Tell us a little bit about the next iteration of it because it is no question when you hear your talk. There's no chapter after Afya for you professionally. I mean, I think this is delightful and calling and you're loving it. What keeps you from doing what you want to do? Is there something else about Afya foundation you haven't done yet? Or you want to do more of? And where's the obstacle here for you? Because he knows, great, great question. Always the challenge, you build it to a certain place. And how do I make this continue as a movement, I really do feel like it's a movement.
Danielle Butin
It is a movement and in multiple sectors, it's a movement, it's a movement for the environment. It's a movement for global health and equity. And it's a movement for giving folks who are often overlooked an opportunity to dig deep into their own capacity for altruism and learn what that feels like and where they can go with it. We're just wrapping up a strategic planning process. Sixteen years in, this is our first real strategic plan, and we were ready for it. And you know, it's interesting. So there are a number of ways that we're going to shape shift a bit for the better. And I think one of them is that we've been doing an enormous amount of disaster relief work, and we're still going to respond to disasters, especially disasters. I mean, the concern is with what is happening in our climate, the risk and the frequency of natural disasters is increasing. enormously. I mean, this is going to be a horrible hurricane season. And we don't only want to do disasters, so I started Afya with an intent to do health system strengthening and to go into parts of our world, specifically Sub Saharan Africa and the Caribbean, and strengthen what exists and what does it look like when these sites have supplies in district health centers, so that all the carriers interest driven to the hospital, that there are Dopplers. And there are ways to treat wounds, and there are sutures in these health centers. And that is something that Afya is going to be spending more time on more energy and effort on creating very specific partnerships and, and establishing health systems strengthening relationships and doing much more of looking at what is needed in key districts in these nations over time that they're just not getting these supplies.
I remember being in one recently, and they were autoclave and cotton balls in little silver dishes. And I said, please help me understand what this is. And they said, We never have anything to clean out wounds. So we just keep autoclaving these cotton balls until they fall apart. And so there's this opportunity to strengthen what exists and I think there is a crisis every single day in underserved health centers.
So that's one, two is we are invested in really establishing and deepening our partnership with Greater New York Hospital Association and creating a new york strong, literally a New York strong project where all of New York City is donating their medical supplies to Afya and we are well integrated into every single system of care. It could be nursing homes, could be hospitals, could be outpatient treatment centers. But Afya is a known name, so the supplies that could have a second life are not going to be discarded, and we have rigorous plans on how we're going to get there. And we are invested in New York, you know, the New York State Department of Health funds, Afya, to show up for community net safety providers, these community organizations and federally qualified health centers in New York, that do not have the funding, they need to show up for underserved populations. And we are there net now. And so, you know, we need partners who are going to help us financially invest in this enormous growth and undertaking that we see in the next few years. But we also need folks who have connections to transportation partners, I mean, everything from domestic trucking to international sea, JetBlue has been an amazing partner for us, for the Caribbean, and domestic crisis work, but we also need others, we need international air support as well. And so there are a multitude of ways Alan that people can get involved, it's just a matter of where in the growth trajectory is interesting for people and how do they see themselves lending a hand in this?
Alan Fleischmann
I love that. \And then, you know, are there partners on the horizon that I would never imagine would be a partner for you that you've never established. But it kind of be an “aha moment”, because I'm sure you're thinking about ways in which other CEOs and companies have joined forces with you.
Danielle Butin
That's such an interesting question. We are starting to try to do far more these days. And it's complicated with Ministries of Health in some of the sites we serve. I am increasingly seeing that instead of one-offs, we are committed to forging relationships there because it only strengthens their impact and strengthens what they're able to offer their home nation by partnering with us and us being one of their support services. So originally, I always thought that I would just want to work with the infrastructure that exists in a district or an NGO-like Partners in Health and the amazing work that they're doing. But I'm starting to see increasingly that working with Ministries of Health is an essential stepping stone for the work to be solidified in some of these nations.
Alan Fleischmann
That's cool. How often are you traveling?
Danielle Butin
Now that during COVID, I didn't do very much and missed it terribly. We have trips coming up. We just came back from Grenada, where we're working with the Prime Minister of the island on helping health centers island-wide, we have a trip coming up in Puerto Rico, where we are working on women's health and supporting Island wide practitioners working from domestic abuse shelters, to clinics to midwives going into rural areas, and we are supporting the supply delivery for women's health on the island and building that as well. At some point in the near future, I will be back in South Africa, we're doing a lot with an organization in the Cape Town townships. It's all about the puzzle pieces coming together. But it feels so good to be able to travel again and to visit our partners and there's nothing more powerful than sitting across from the folks we are supporting and breaking bread together and having them think and imagine and wish out loud with us in front of them.
Alan Fleischmann
It's so cool. Is there a part anywhere in Sub Saharan Africa? You're solely Sub Saharan Africa, right?
Danielle Butin
Pretty much.
Alan Fleischmann
Is there any part of Sub Saharan Africa that you're not in that you don't want to be in or you're not in?
Danielle Butin
Well, we have relationships currently, in Malawi, we are in South Africa. We're in Tanzania. We're doing some work in Kenya, Uganda, we're in Ghana. And we actually just did an incredible project in Ethiopia. And I think we're gonna be doing more there and Gondar. I think that like the work that I described, wanting to root with partnerships and start to work on fixing what's broken with just access to supplies. I think the goal at this point is to deepen the relationships that exist, we are open to new relationships all the time, I can start to see them. But I want to do some of this work really well and learn from it, instead of a lateral expanse, where we're just doing a little everywhere, I just don't think that that's as impactful or helpful. And we have a lot to learn from this. You know, what, over time, if we were to support health centers for a year, with the supplies coming out of New York? Where do they then reallocate their money for medication or a variety of other needs? And what are the supplies that we can send that will be most efficacious and impactful for them, and we focus there, and that's the learning for us over the next year, year and a half.
Alan Fleischmann
That's actually said, I love that you're that whole idea of we're learning. We're not just teachers, we're learning as well. It's such a big part of what you do, as well. So I think that's an important message to people that you never stop learning. It goes back to what you said earlier part of the show, as well. This, I think, is we only have like a minute or so left, is there any last message that you'd want to, to share any advice you want to give to a young person who's saying, you know, I want to get engaged in health care, I want to be a healthcare professional, I want to, you know, I want to solve problems. And because I don't think of you now, as a healthcare professional anymore, I think you do as someone who actually saw an opportunity to change and to and to make things happen, so you're as much an operational person who sees a challenge and then fixes it. Like the engineer in healthcare rather than just doing healthcare, you do both. So anybody that's interested in making that kind of the, the engineer in them, you know, and then anybody who wants to get into the healthcare field, or what would your message be?
Danielle Butin
First of all, I love that observation, Alan, I think that's exquisite. Second, I would say there are two really important pieces here. Number one, is be very, very careful with the voice you invite inside of you to your table. We all know the duality of this, and we live with it. So they're the voices that say, “go, go, go, go, go, go, go make this happen. It doesn't matter. Just go.” And then they're the voices that say, “you can't do this, you don't have enough time, money or backup, and it's not going to work.” And if that's the voice, we succumb to nothing happens, nothing gets launched, there are no possibilities you're done before you even begin. So disinvite, disinvite, the nagging, negative, naysaying voice from your table with anything you need or want to launch. That's number one. Number two, perfection is a complete waste of time. So I have tripped up and our team has tripped up more times than I can even begin to count. And we learn at every trip up. And so the only way to begin is to allow yourself the glory of imperfection. And it being a total mess. And it's worth it because that's where you learn. And that's where you find your stepping. And those I think are the two most important pieces for anyone wanting to start, is you have to give yourself a break. If I had started this, I had no volunteers. I had no staff. It was ludicrous. I got pneumonia. I could have easily said, “Okay body, you're telling me something here I need to stop.” But what I said to myself was it's just going to be a mess. And you're going to figure out how to get home. And that's exactly how the volunteer programs start. And so be patient and have a sense of humor. People have to have a sense of humor. When it gets really bad. I burst out laughing and everyone looks at me and I just think this is so bad. It can't get any worse than this. And then people laugh and then we can start to create solutions. You can't create a way to fix a thing if you are tied in a knot.
Alan Fleischmann
That part about life, not just your career, about bringing joy to even the most grim environments and having a sense of humor is so critical. And your point about perfection. I'm still a student of that, I'm all about excellence is not good. Good is never good enough for me. But it isn't for you either. But this idea that if you're looking for perfection rather than looking for results, you may miss the results and I've been their profession they forget they've lost the focus from what they're really out there trying to do well this show has been so inspirational and wonderful. You've been listening to Leadership Matters. I'm your host Alan Fleischmann. We've just spent the last hour with Danielle Butin. I want to always say butene. But she’s really an extraordinary person. She's the founder and CEO of Afya foundation. She's the author of Wild Hope now. I urge people to get her book. It's on AFYA foundation.org. And to really read it because she has been such a pleasure not only today, but really to hear about her life. Her influences and her impactful career and is the best is yet to come thank you so much Danielle for being on the show today
Danielle Butin
Thank you, Alan.