Ed Welburn
Former Vice President, Global Design at General Motors
“The most important thing I could do was create an environment, both physical and cultural, in which everyone felt free to come forward with their best ideas, that they had that freedom, that I was approachable, and that I would not to be afraid to promote people that may in fact be smarter than me.”
Summary
In this episode of Leadership Matters, “The man who brought beauty back to GM,” Ed Welburn discusses his 44-year career at General Motors, and how he came to be renowned for creating some of the most cohesive teams in the world of design.
In this interview Ed highlights the importance of creating a culture of support within a team, and how that culture is vital for effective collaboration. Additionally, Ed shares some of his unique strategies for engaging employees and his insights on the importance of employee satisfaction and retention.
Mentions & Resources in this Episode
Eraced, the story of Charles “Charlie” Wiggins, the most celebrated African American race car driver of his era
Guest Bio
Ed Welburn was named Vice President of GM Design North America in 2003, becoming just the sixth Design leader in GM history. In 2005, he was named Vice President, GM Global Design, and was the first person to lead all of the company’s Global Design Centers. Welburn also served on the company’s Executive Leadership Team. He retired after a 44-year career at General Motors in 2016.
He and his team of over 2,500 men and women were responsible for the design development of every GM concept and production car and truck globally. Under Welburn’s leadership, GM Design introduced critically acclaimed new concept vehicles, such as the Buick Avista, which captured the EyesOn Design Award for “Best Concept Vehicle” and the Detroit News Readers’ Choice Award.
He began his General Motors career in 1972 as an associate designer assigned to the Advanced Design Studios. In 1973, Welburn joined the Buick Exterior Studio where he worked on the Buick Riviera and Park Avenue. In 1975, he was assigned to the Oldsmobile Exterior Studio. There he led the development of a number of successful production vehicles and designed the Oldsmobile Aerotech speed-record vehicle, which set two world's records of more than 257 miles per hour in 1987.
In 1978, the GM Foundation, of which Welburn is a board member, established a yearly grant award to Howard University. He currently serves on the on the board of trustees at the College for Creative Studies in Detroit, Michigan.
Welburn is the first African American to lead a global automotive design organization, and was GM’s first African American designer when he joined the company in 1972.
In 2016, General Motors dedicated its Center for African American Art at the Detroit Institute of Arts in Welburn's honor. The Detroit Free Press also honored him with its first-ever Difference Makers Lifetime Achievement Award, and most recently his body of work was turned over to the Smithsonian Institution museum, making him the first automobile designer to earn that distinction.
Welburn has also appeared on Jay’s (Leno) Garage, CNBC, Velocity TV’s AmeriCarna television series and truTV’s Motor City Masters reality competition. In June of 2014, Welburn made his motion picture film debut with a cameo-speaking role in the Michael Bay-directed “Transformers 4: Age of Extinction.” Portions of the movie were filmed at the GM Design Center in Warren, Michigan, including Welburn’s office and the iconic GM Design Dome.
Follow Ed Welburn on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, or Linkedin and his website WelburnDesign.com.
Clips from this Episode
Episode Transcription
Alan Fleischmann
My guest today is a pioneer in the automotive industry, whose work has influenced so many of the cars on the road today. Ed Welburn is the former VP of Global Design at General Motors. Over the course of nearly a half a century with the company, he’s played a major role in revitalizing the company's look, and has been called “the man who brought beauty back to GM.” He was the mind behind the 1987 Oldsmobile Aerotec, a concept car that shattered multiple closed-course speed records, reaching top speeds of over 257 miles per hour. During his time at GM, he was the highest ranking African American in the automotive business, and he remains a member of the automotive Hall of Fame. He is a soft spoken leader, who has played a hand in revolutionizing American automobile manufacturing. I'm thrilled to have him join us on leadership matters today, and to listen to him share what it means to be a leader in today's times. Ed, thank you for joining me, welcome to Leadership Matters.
Ed Welburn
Well, good morning, it's great to be here. That's quite an introduction. You know, when I was a young designer at GM, I’d always thought that someone who had been working there for 30 years was amazing. I’ve worked there for 44, and I actually feel like I'm just getting started.
Alan Fleischmann
Well, the thing is — and this is one of the negative sides of being on radio versus on video — is that you look great, so it looks like you ARE just getting started for real. You look as vitalized & energized as ever. So I can only imagine the best is yet to come. I wanted to get a little sense of your early life. You were born and raised in Philadelphia, or the Philadelphia area, where your father ran a car repair shop. Is it safe to say that you were raised in a family of car enthusiasts?
Ed Welburn
Yes, my father had an auto body repair shop. I used to spend as much time as I could there. He thought it was a very dirty business, so he didn't want me too close to it. What he didn't realize is that, when I wasn't there, I was riding my bicycle to other auto shops, and spending time there as well. The interesting thing is my brother, who a lot of people think is my twin, but is my younger brother, has his PhD in library science, and is not real interested in automobiles at all.
Alan Fleischmann
How many siblings? Just the one? What is he doing today?
Ed Welburn
He just retired from a very successful career in academia. He's got his PhD in library science and was most recently on staff at University at Marquette, in Wisconsin.
Alan Fleischmann
Wonderful. In the past, you said that attending the 1958 Philadelphia auto show as a child was a seminal moment for inspiring your interest in automotive design. What about that show cemented that passion? Why auto design, as opposed to another car centric or car centered profession?
Ed Welburn
Well, you know what's interesting, even as a toddler, when other kids were drawing stick figures of horses and people, I was drawing cars, even at age three. I was crazy about cars at that age. I think it was my parents who took me to the Auto Show. The auto show was like my Disneyland. I mean, the colors, the cars, I just absolutely loved it. And as we were walking through the exhibit, this one car just struck me, just absolutely struck me, and I told my parents at that time that when I grew up, I wanted to design cars for that company. And the car was the Cadillac Cyclon. It just cemented the whole deal for me. Through car magazines I found out where the car was from, and at age 11, I wrote my first letter to General Motors design.
Alan Fleischmann
And you knew it had to be General Motors, right?
Ed Welburn
Exactly. I didn't even consider another company.
Alan Fleischmann
That's so exciting. You attended Howard University, where I know you’re loved as an alma mater they celebrate you. You studied design & sculpture before interning at GM. How did your focus on automotive design mesh with those of your fellow design majors?
Ed Welburn
Well, it was interesting because it was a transition period, and there hadn’t been a lot of schools with a major in transportation design until around then. Howard University didn’t have one in fact. I studied product design, and I studied sculpture, because I felt as though a proper automobile design was a very sculptural object. And it really helped me quite a bit.
Alan Fleischmann
Are you in touch with a lot of your Howard University? alums?
Ed Welburn
You know, it was interesting to be in School of Fine Arts at that time, which was quite different than the rest of the Howard campus. The fine arts community was very much like the movie Fame, because it was divided into music and drama. Felicia Rashad was a student there, Debbie Allen was there. Donald Byrd was an instructor, Roberta Flack, you know, I could be working in the sculpture studio, and I could hear Roberta Flack playing in the practice room. Yeah, that's the environment that I grew up in at Howard University.
Alan Fleischmann
That's amazing. You also studied under Lois Jones, who was one of most notable artists in the 20th century. Are there any principles or methods that stick with you today?
Ed Welburn
I believe so. In fact, I have a couple of her paintings here in my home. Lois Jones was very strict, very strict. She ran her class like a drill sergeant, she had this stick or baton that she might smack on the table at times. But I learned a lot of the principles of design from her. I also took her painting courses, and I learned a lot about painting, and color, and proportions in the work that you're doing. I think a lot of it was discipline that I learned from her, you know, instead of being an unruly artist.
Alan Fleischmann
That's amazing. Have you stayed in touch with her over the years?
Ed Welburn
I did, she passed away a few years ago, but long after I left Howard, I stayed in touch with Lois Jones, she was very special, and she was a lot warmer outside of the classroom than in it.
Alan Fleischmann
So then came your summer internship at GM. You joined the design team there. I guess it was soon after you graduated from Howard, I guess. Right? In 1972? Yes. From there, you worked your way up to the range. What was your first break within the company? And did you know immediately that you wanted to clearly in your head, like, “I'm joining GM,” or “I know I'm gonna be a GM person”?
Ed Welburn
Well, I made that decision when I was eight years old. I just wrote my first letter to them when I was 11. And I stayed in touch with them through high school, and in college. It was through that communication with them that I learned of their summer internship, which I applied to because they were hiring designers and sculptors. I was getting into that program one way or another, so I sent in two applications, one for design and one for sculpting. I got in as a sculptor, and spent that summer at GM, although I think I focused more on design than on sculpture. At the end of the internship, they just told me “go back and finish up your senior year because we want to hire you.” Which I did.
My first big break was the Oldsmobile era tech, that was a huge step in my development. It's the first project in which I wasn’t just the designer on the boards working, but I was managing the project from a design perspective. I was working with a cross-functional group for the first time—with engineers marketing, PR, the race team, the aerodynamicists—so that was a big step.
Alan Fleischmann
You also were behind the Chevrolet Corvette Stingray, Right?
Ed Welburn
I worked on three generations of Corvette Stingray, as well as a Stingray concept. I think the most important one. It's a great car and I'm very proud to have worked with the team on it—but the Corvette C7 sticks out as being a very significant car to me, because we started working on it during the absolute darkest days of bankruptcy. The headlines every single day were just so horrible, which is a terrible environment for designers to work in. So I thought, well, this is an opportunity to really energize the design team. We had 11 design centers in seven countries around the world. I didn’t only want the Corvette team to work on the new C7 Corvette, but I wanted to give an opportunity to every designer in General Motors around the planet to send in their ideas for what the new Corvette should be. It just created this energy and excitement throughout the design organization, which started to seep into other areas of the corporation, when they felt this energy, this focus. Some thought I was putting a disproportionate amount of energy around Corvette, but I knew that it would energize the whole organization.
Alan Fleischmann
I remember when I was a little kid with my older siblings, whenever we did family trips together, one of the games we played was how many Stingrays can we spot on the highway? And literally, you know, we counted them, and we would yell out “Stingray!”, and whoever got the most Stingrays would win. It was such a popular car.
Ed Welburn
When we started work on the C7 Corvette, we had seen that the average age of Corvette owners was getting higher, and the sales volumes were going down. Without turning off the traditional buyers of Corvettes, we wanted to appeal to younger buyers with the C7. So that became a bit of a core of the challenge in designing that car. And then it continued through the Corvette CA, which is really appealing to a younger customer.
Alan Fleischmann
What helped inspire you when you got involved in design? Did you consider the same kinds of factors that you talked about just now, like sales demographics, and say “okay, we're appealing to the wrong audience,” or “we need to expand the audience,” or would you use design to kind of… overcome some of their woes? Like if a design was central to their business development?
Ed Welburn
Well, design was certainly very significant. I think it has been since the early days. In the auto industry- I think it was Sloan who said “No car company will have a technological advantage for long.” If one company comes out with a self-starter, others will as well. If another company comes out with air conditioning, other companies will as well. The great differentiator is design. It was true then, and it's true today. When the majority of vehicles are electric, the difference between one battery and another will not be as significant as the difference between one V8 combustion engine to another. So design will continue to be the great differentiator, and can really set the mood and the tone, like the most outer layer of clothing that a person has.
Alan Fleischmann
How big a team were you working with?
Ed Welburn
Well, it was over 1400 very creative individuals, working in 11 design centers in seven countries around the world, and it all became one global organization.
Alan Fleischmann
You lead a lot of the teams of designers, right? I mean, the ones you just described—you were the head of design, right?
Ed Welburn
Yes, when I first became head of design I was only the sixth person to do that. And I was only the head of design for North America. And that was true for all of my predecessors. None of them ran it globally. There were other design centers around round the world, but they were very independent from each other, which wasn't very efficient. And, you know, one design center may design a car very differently from another. So I was able to convince all these design centers, that one very collaborative organization was of great benefit to the company.
Alan Fleischmann
And those were the days before Zoom. So when the company was global, how did you manage to do that?
Ed Welburn
Yeah, there were a couple things, I mean, we, we had virtual tools that allowed us to collaborate in virtual reality, and review designs around the world, and the screens were great. They were like eight feet tall and 20 feet wide. And there were three of them. So it was a great command center. But I would say that those technologies work best if you know the people on the other end personally. So I would make regular visits to those studios. It was important for me to know the people I was working with.
Alan Fleischmann
That's great. You're listening to leadership matters on Sirius XM, I'm your host, Alan Fleischman. I’m here together with a really extraordinary leader, Ed Welburn, who has many, many decades of extraordinary design leadership experience at GM. Who really broke so many barriers, and created amazing, amazing, amazing cars over the years, or at least led the design team. You were the first person at GM to head a consolidated global design team. I'm curious about your leadership style. We have so many CEOs who listen to the show and aspiring CEOs and other leaders. We all want to tap the right brain, and the left brain of everybody we work with, right? In the in the world of design, you’re dealing with both the business side and the artistry side and you're dealing with the artists too, which is not easy to manage. And then when you take an account, you did this cross cultures, and you did this globally, either. Did you discover along the way or did you test drive, for lack of a better word, the ED Welburn leadership style? Could you tell us a little about that?
Ed Welburn
Well, I think I was fortunate. I had worked for all of my predecessors with the exception of Harley Earl, I'd worked for ALL of them. I was able to really observe their style, what worked and what didn't. I learned so much from them. And my feeling was that the most important thing I could do was create an environment, both physical and cultural, in which everyone felt free to come forward with their best ideas. They needed to know they had freedom, and that that I was approachable. It was important to me not to be afraid to promote people that might in fact be smarter than me. I also felt as though it was very important to really get the best out of everyone; everyone's got some areas, some capabilities that are magical. And you just need to know how to get that out of them. Working in collaboration was very important with those teams around the world. Developing a healthy competition between them was a big part of it. It was all about developing a culture within design that was very supportive.
Alan Fleischmann
I’m curious how many people have the same love for GM as you did? Did they love being part of this collaborative team as you created it, or curated it? And did they stay for a long time?
Ed Welburn
They typically did stay. It’s design, I mean, you stay in that area, the corporation generally doesn’t let go of marketing or engineering. Some go to other car companies, and in fact, quite a few of the leaders in design at other car companies worked for me at one point in time. But you know, you just develop a culture in which everyone really feels a part of it, that they have a stake in it. And good things happen. One of the things I would do, I was inspired by, visiting the Jay Leno show, and I said “this is just fabulous,” watch it in person, as opposed to watching it on TV. So I said, “why can’t all employee meetings be just like this?” Every area of the company has employee meetings, where they all come into a large auditorium and hold presentations. I said, well, why can't we do this like The Tonight Show? I assembled a band that was made up of employees, some were designers, some were sculptors, some were craftsmen from the auto shops. I would say half of them were union UAW employees, and half of them were salaried employees, and they were the band. They would perform a few songs as all the employees came into the auditorium. The voice of God would talk about the agenda, I come out on stage, just like the tonight show, and I would talk to the audience a bit. I had a desk on the stage, and presentations would be delivered in a fun & engaging format. We'd always have a guest speaker… like Barry Barr, or another leader from GM would come in, and they would take a seat next to my desk, and we would talk a bit, no matter who was presenting. It just brought a human side to the whole thing in it.
Alan Fleischmann
And you have your own Tonight Show set?
Ed Welburn
We did. It was just like the real thing, if not better. And we would run commercials! The commercials would be GM commercials from around the world. So we might be in Michigan, but we'd see a commercial from Australia or from China or something like that, which was just so fascinating. I loved that. And of course we broadcast it to all the design centers around the world.
Alan Fleischmann
How long did you do that? That's an amazing concept by the way, it's something that people could do today, like a TED Talk meets The Tonight Show.
Ed Welburn
That's a great way of describing it. I was a leader in design for 13 years, and less than a year into that job that I’d started doing them that way. So we ran for like 12 years. The band was really good, too.
Alan Fleischmann
Wow. That must have been a wonderful cultural thing to do, too. Because if you were sharing it company-wide, you were sharing the multifaceted conversation internally.
Ed Welburn
Yeah, I with the other design centers, not the entire company, but the entire company knew about it. In fact, you know, there were people from other departments who wanted to come be in the audience for the show. I mean, it was an employee meeting—all the same information that any other employee meeting would have, but then in a very different way.
Alan Fleischmann
Can I go so far as to say you were a pioneer among Black designers also, in the in the industry?
Ed Welburn
I would say so, but I don't dwell on it a lot. But it's true. I mean, there was a Black designer at Ford who had been there for quite a few years before I started, but I was the first African American hired to design cars at GM. And at every other position I filled moving up, and there were quite a few positions. You know, I was always the first African American.
Alan Fleischmann
Every day you hear stories of African American designers following you because they heard about you.
Ed Welburn
Yes, in fact, I sponsored outreach programs, and I've received letters, you know, just like the letter I wrote when I was 11. I received letters and I would make sure that everyone got an answer to their letter.
Alan Fleischmann
That's awesome. You know, from the Transformers movies to the Grand Turismo video game series- you've applied your design skills to a number of other projects. In your current career as a consultant, does your process change at all when you're designing fantasy products? Or is it is there a kind of a “Welburn way”?
Ed Welburn
I think there's some basics in leadership that can be transferred from one area to another. Right now, I'm working with Bolt Micro-Mobility, on the design of electric scooters. It's really fun. It's a lot of fun working with the team. They’re a very creative team, and a small team. We've got a designer in Miami, and there's one in Sweden. Then there's me, who takes a real leadership role in design. Actually, I'm sketching now more than I have in decades; every day, I'm filling sketch books. But there are some basics of collaboration in a small team that are the same in a big team, like the one I had at GM. I'm also doing some athletic shoe design work. I can't talk about the company yet. But it's a lot of fun sketching athletic shoes. But probably the most meaningful thing that I've been a part of—apart from designing Corvettes—is the movie project that I'm involved in. And again, it's a leadership role, that I think is a very important one. And it might be managed a bit differently than other leaders in the movie industry have done in the past.
Alan Fleischmann
That's really exciting. Let's talk about leadership for a minute. You're listening to Sirius XM, Leadership Matters, I'm your host Alan Fleischman, and I'm having a fascinating conversation with Ed Welburn, who has been a pioneer in the world of design, film, product design, micro-mobility, and so many others. I'm curious, going back to the leadership topic. GM has had a reputation for a long time of not being an innovative work environment, at least not on the design side. I'm curious whether there was a process for cultural change that you led, because during the period you were there, it became a much more innovative company. Were you were you trying to unleash that innovation, but also build and expand the brand?
Ed Welburn
Yeah, I thought it was important for everyone to be a part of the team, and to have a very supportive organization. At the end of the day, understanding our customers was everything and building on the strength of the brand. I thought it was important to celebrate when there was a victory, whether it was a small one, or a large one. Purely by coincidence the coffee mug I have here today was called a “fast steady” award. It would be awarded in recognition of an employee’s accomplishment. It didn’t have to be a large one, it might be something small but it would be something we felt we needed to recognize. I’m very impressed with the direction of General Motors today, it seems to be far more creative and innovative company than it was in the past. To be honest, there was a period where things moved very slowly. That could be rather frustrating. In my opinion things are moving much more quickly today.
Alan Fleischmann
They need to move quicker, especially today, right? You have to move as fast as your slowest partner, but then you have to question whether that partner is the right partner. It's good to have a balance, a few people that are cautionary and say “hey, let’s hold back.” But sometimes if you're first in the market, you own it, and going too slow can be negative.
Ed Welburn
Yeah. And the challenge in design is that the process takes four to five years to design a vehicle. That means the product won’t be on the market for another five years. So when those first sketches begin, you've got to think almost 10 years out and as we all know, so many things change in 10 years. It's an incredible challenge to make the right move. You know, thinking that far in advance. One day, I had a visit from Tommy Hilfiger. He asked me how long it took to develop a vehicle because, we were talking about the fashion world and how quickly they move. When I told him, he looked at me like I was crazy. “How do you think that far in advance? How can you make the right move, given the cultural changes that happened in the world?”
Alan Fleischmann
And how did you? I know you had sales data to refer to, but in many ways, the most successful cars and products probably were built on intuition, not the data side. And how do you know what tomorrow's buyer is going to want? Is it built on someone's intuition?
Ed Welburn
I think you need both. I think you need to gather your information, you need to talk to customers, but then you've got to make the call at the end of the day. I mean, as much as I like fashion, and suits, and ties. If I was a customer in the market for ties, I would probably gravitate to the tie that I was most familiar with, as opposed to something that was totally different. So I think that's true with the design of vehicles when customers come in, and they're given a choice of different designs to evaluate. The one that they’re most familiar, the one that they're most comfortable with is the one they're going to want, and that kind of stymies creativity in design. So I would always use market research is a starting point, and get an understanding what the needs are in a customer, but then you've got to go far beyond that. You've got to exceed their expectations.
Alan Fleischmann
When you're head of design at a company like General Motors, are you at the table with the business side, or the market research side all at the same table together? Or is it more like the market research side tells the business side “this is what we got to create,” and the business side comes to the design team and says, “let's go for it.” Is it a linear process?
Ed Welburn
I mean, we all have our silos that we're working in. But that definitely happens. And depending where we are in the project, whether those meetings are monthly, or daily. Collaboration is everything. And one of the most challenging collaborations is between design and engineering. Two very different people don't necessarily speak the same language. The balance is very sensitive. That's probably one of the greatest challenges in developing a vehicle. If you get it right, good things happen.
Alan Fleischmann
Was there ever a time before something hit the marketplace that you knew you’d get it right? I imagine there's a moment where there’s wonderful clicking sound and music when you know you got it right.
Ed Welburn
That's a great way of putting it, I would have to say that the work on the Corvette was probably the best. The head of the Corvette organization is a brilliant man. Tough, but very fair. And I think the collaboration between Corvette engineering, Corvette design, Corvette Racing, and the Corvette customer is like a circle of knowledge. And that’s pretty special in the auto industry.
Alan Fleischmann
I got to imagine that if I asked you what your greatest challenge was; it was probably the hiring part. Because you really developed a culture, a culture of innovation, a culture of collaboration, you did it in a way that had to be global. You had to create partnerships, so it wasn't so siloed, and getting the right people for the community. I imagined that the more creative the person who had a lot of creative people around you, the more stubborn people could be about their artistry. So was the Ed way, when it came to interviewing people and hiring people?
Ed Welburn
Yeah, designers can be stubborn, they admit it. I would always say, yes, I would love this design to be put on display in the Museum of Modern Art. But I’d really rather this see 400,000 of them in customers, driveways. Finding that balance is important. Hiring is a challenge. Retention is a challenge, because it's a very competitive business. I mean, it's like war. You really need to work to keep employees engaged and satisfied. I had a great meeting with a young designer, from our studio in Korea. She had been on loan to the studio in North America for a month. She wanted to meet with me before she went back to Korea. She did not speak English. She had been working with other designers in North America that did speak Korean. I don’t speak a word of Korean, but she wanted to meet with me. So we sat in my office, the two of us to both designers, and we drew diagrams and sketches. And through those diagrams and sketches, we talked about the glass ceiling in design. We talked about a number of different challenges from an HR perspective. It was one of the most meaningful conversations I've ever had. And it was all done with sketches—two designers just sketching diagrams. When the meeting was over, I rolled up all the diagrams and took them to a meeting. I said “here are challenges in this particular studio.” And we were able to act on them and make a huge difference.
Alan Fleischmann
That's amazing. I love what you said earlier, that one of the cornerstones of your leadership is surrounding yourself with people that you thought often felt were more talented than you. I always want to surround myself with people who are smarter. Then you know that you're going to be at your best, and hopefully there'll be at their best. How do you figure that out when you interview them? How do you know that when you're looking at someone?
Ed Welburn
I would have formal interviews, but I would be the interviewer.
Alan Fleischmann
I’d like to get a sense of your leadership style and, how you tap talent. Also, what you did when you got them because you have a great reputation for having really brought together extraordinary teams. Often times you know, everybody came from the same school, or the same background, or the same focus. You seem to have been known for a long time, for mixing it up.
Ed Welburn
Yeah. I actually enjoyed mixing it up and putting together creative solutions, you know. Before I would have high-level meetings, I would go down into the shop area, and have a cup of coffee with the employees down there in the paint shop. And they were UAW employees, so that's where I started my day. They would fill me in on their perspective of what was going on, which was always eye-opening. Plus the coffee was really good. Then I'd leave there and have a meeting with Mary Barra, or Mark Royce with design studios around the world.
Alan Fleischmann
I love that. And when did you know that you wanted to step down? And how hard was that decision?
Ed Welburn
You know, it just felt right. I felt like I’d done my job. It was time for a new leader. It was time for things, you know, to continue to evolve. It just felt right.
Alan Fleischmann
And did you look at it like “I'm going to leave soon. Was the IDA contract coming to you like a prelude to your decision to exit?
Ed Welburn
Yeah, it was. It must have been a year before. Because, I really had to carefully think about who would be the next leader of design. The study needed to take place, I had lengthy conversations with Mark Royce, and he reported to Mary bar and we would have great conversations about that. So I wanted to because I cared so much about the organization. I wanted to make sure that things were in the right place. I had decided a year ahead, but I didn't share that with anyone until I thought the time was right. The organization didn't know until a month or two before I left, because I knew as soon as they knew that I was leaving that things would start to shift. At that point, you might as well leave.
A month before I left, I shipped my Corvette that I'd been involved in designing. I shipped it to Italy. I took a two week drive from Rome up through Tuscany and went to Monza and Torino, and visited design houses there and then went to the mall for it for the 24 hour race and then I took the channel to England. And it was just kind of a great way to cleanse before I left the company.
Alan Fleischmann
There were some great photographs from that period. It was wonderful. With the wind blowing and the beautiful roads of Italy, and your favorite car.
Ed Welburn
Yeah and it was fascinating. I mean, I don't I think I saw another Corvette that whole time, at least not a silver 06 Corvette andcertainly not with a the black man driving it. It was it was a great experience.
Alan Fleischmann
When you when you left the company did you leave behind a leadership team that you developed?
Ed Welburn
It was a leadership team that I developed. The new leader of design had been a part of my leadership team. He knew the organization very well. I knew that there would be changes that he would want to make, and I wanted to leave them with as much ammunition as possible.
Alan Fleischmann
Do you stay in touch with the team?
Ed Welburn
Yes, in fact just last week I had a conversation with some of them. I'm in touch with them a bit, not that often. You know, they're very busy. They have a lot of security around what they do. They've got new challenges because of COVID. Design is a full time job, you can't be a consultant, or just drop-in. So I stay clear of it. Besides, I'm so busy. In this new chapter in my life, I hate the word retirement because I'm far from retired.
Alan Fleischmann
I gotta tell you, you look so young. You act so youthful. I know you’ll live a long, healthy life. Tell us a bit about your family! And then, how do you juggle your time now? And let's talk about some of your projects.
I feel like I graduated from one of the greatest schools of higher education, General Motors. Now I’m putting everything I’ve learned into practice. For the work with scooter bolt micro-mobility, I’d been brought on as an advisor. Now I'm find myself more as their chief designer, so I make sketches for that every day, and I’m also sketching sneakers for another project. But the movie project is probably my prime one. In addition I'm Judge of classic cars at Pebble Beach in Amelia Island, which I enjoy very much, and I'm able to spend more time with my kids and grandkids, which is very cool.
Alan Fleischmann
How many grandchildren?
Ed Welburn
Two children and two grandchildren. It's fun when I see them. I don't see them as often as I like, but I do enjoy the time I spend with them.
Alan Fleischmann
What is home-base for you?
Ed Welburn
Pennsylvania, and the thing that's so cool about it is that it’s not really close to where I grew up. I grew up in a suburb of Philadelphia. I'm still over an hour away from Philadelphia. But I'm just like a couple hundred yards from cornfields, which is kind of cool to see. I'm also just a little over an hour from Manhattan. And I love that city. I love it more than ever, and I'm there on a regular basis. If nothing else, just go to a restaurant or to go to an event. I'm on Tony Bennett's board, and our board meetings are in New York and I try to attend them in person if I can. What Tony's organization does is so very special. Supporting the arts, and public schools of the Arts in New York and now in LA as well. These schools are incredible facilities. The one school I spend the most time in was the Sinatra School, which is in Brooklyn. It has facilities that are equal if not better than some universities. The talent in that school and the other schools is just phenomenal. I feel honored that Tony asked me to be on the board and to be a part of it.
Alan Fleischmann
He's such a nice guy, and I know he recently announced that he's slowing down a little bit, but it doesn't sound like he is. He’s changing the way we think about dementia. The fact that he's still performing, with his son is amazing to watch. He's literally changing the way people think of Alzheimer’s.
Ed Welburn
Well, he's got a great organization for exploring the arts. I was at his concert. The final Gaga, Tony Bennett concert, just a few weeks ago, his 95th birthday. His performance was unbelievable, he sounded better than he has sounded in years. And he knew every single word, hit every note perfectly. He got a standing ovation on each and every song.
Alan Fleischmann
We know he has a reputation in the music world, and for being a nice guy. And you have a reputation in the design world for being a nice guy. People know he's tough, and he has high standards, people know you're tough, and that you have high standards. But there's an elegance to both of you, and a gentleness to both of you in the sense of humility. I think one reason why you’re both beloved, not only for your talent, is the same reason why people believe in diversity. Even through this show today, you've been talking such a humble way. It's very genuine. People are looking for people who are confident, but have a sense of gratitude and humility in their journey.
Ed Welburn
I just want to treat people the way I want to be treated. That's all. You know, it's was like that when Tony and I met.
Alan Fleischmann
How did you meet?
Ed Welburn
Well, we met backstage at a concert he did in Detroit, and we ended up going for drinks. I think it was six of us. And I can't talk to Tony Bennett about music. But I knew about painting, and we spent the evening talking about painting and sculpture, and he asked my opinions on doing sculpture and that's how our friendship began.
Alan Fleischmann
That's amazing. It must be very interesting. Are you and other boards as well?
Ed Welburn
Yeah, for the Center for Creative Studies, CCS Design School in Detroit. I'm on its board.
Alan Fleischmann
Did you get very involved in in the Detroit Renaissance? That's been a big effort in Detroit. It's been a model for the rest of the country.
Ed Welburn
No, I really wasn't that involved. And I couldn't take any credit, although I’m very supportive of what's being done. As it was forming, I had an office downtown, a rather unique one. I really got to experience some of the spirit of Detroit. Now the city has gone beyond that, in its Renaissance. I enjoy it every time I get back there.
Alan Fleischmann
So you are currently helping to develop a biopic that a film about the famous car driver, Charlie Wiggins, champion of the colored Speedway Association in early 20th century. Tell us a little bit about Charlie and the inspiration behind the film.
Ed Welburn
Yeah, it's a true story. It was interesting how I found out about it. I thought I knew everything about racing, but I just happened upon this documentary. That was on PBS, I was in Indianapolis four or five years ago in a hotel room, and I flipped on a TV that just happened to be on PBS. They ran this documentary by Charlie Wiggins on the colors Speedway Association. I was stunned because didn’t know about it, this was the 1920s when this occurred 20s and 30s.The auto industry was young and there were heroes in auto racing. The drivers were like national heroes, and quite a big deal. Well, African Americans wanted to be heroes as well, but they were forbidden from driving in auto racing. And there was a group of businessmen in Indianapolis both black and white, who formed a Racing League for black drivers, and ran for a 10 year period in a very successful series. Charlie Wiggins was really the star driver. He won the championship four out of the ten years, and was very, very successful. I thought, yeah, someone needs to make a movie about this. I was talking to a producer friend, and Madison Lee, who said, “Yeah, you're right. Someone needs to make a movie, and you're the one that should do it.” So we formed Welburn Media Productions. We've hired a team of veteran movie industry writers and producers, and the script is done. And we're at a very key point in the development of the movie.
Alan Fleischmann
That's very cool. You're already casting the movie?
Ed Welburn
We’re entering into that phase right now. We need to sign on the Director. Which can lead to the key actors, or if a key actor is signed, and that may bring in the right director. So we're at that phase right now, I'm learning a lot of about the industry, it's a fascinating industry.
Alan Fleischmann
And you're doing a lot I imagine on zoom right now, because people aren't traveling as much as they would normally.
Ed Welburn
Well, when we first started this interview, I was in my office and on the lower level of this house. And it's just like I said, in the auto industry, the virtual meeting tools are great. But boy, if you really know the person at the other end of the line, it sure makes it a lot easier. So being able to spend a bit of time with the writers and with the producers makes zoom calls a lot easier.
Alan Fleischmann
They get to go personal, which is a big, big ingredient in how you are in your leadership as well. So in the in the years ahead, you've got the film project, which is a great creative side. You’ve got the board service that you're doing, you've got other things that you've been working on. When you're thinking about the thing you haven't done, or the thing that you know, you're going to do, is there one or two or three things out there that you’d like to do?
Ed Welburn
Well, you know, yes, there are a number of things. Everyone says I should write a book. And I've begun that process. So I am working on a book. And there's another movie that we may, in fact, do. But I can't talk about it. But it’s another one based on a true story that's pretty phenomenal. And, you know, I enjoy what it is I'm doing. I'm starting to paint again, I haven't painted in years, I do large paintings on canvas. In the next couple days, I'll start working on one that's five feet tall and about four feet wide. And I'm still sketching. I sketch every day. So those are the most important things. And you know, I think there's probably some ways that I can contribute, or help young people who are interested in the world of design. I think there's my role with Tony's Foundation, I think there's more I can do there.
Alan Fleischmann
That's amazing. Maybe one of the most influential, designers of all time. That's obviously how you built your name, and you've got such an incredible range of projects that you're doing today. I can only imagine having you back on the show when you start to develop some of these even further.
Ed Welburn
I think in some ways, maybe I'm moving faster than I have. I'm certainly doing a lot more sketching than I have in the past. And now things are moving at a pretty fast pace, which I really like.
Alan Fleischmann
Are you interested t in selling some of your sketches? And, you know, you when you talk about the these five foot canvases that you're now painting- do you want to sell your art?
Ed Welburn
That my goal I mean, my goal is to create, and develop, you know, a couple large paintings, we'll see. If that happens, it happens, but my interest is more in creating the artwork itself, and not necessarily the sale of it.
Alan Fleischmann
Yeah, well, this is such a pleasure. This has been an amazing hour. This is leadership matters on Sirius XM, I'm your host, Alan Fleischmann. I knew I'd be inspired by having Ed Welburn on our show today. You have really, truly been an inspiration for so many, and those who don't even know that you're behind some of the most cherished and beloved automobiles. In design, but also, in so many other projects that you're now involved in. It really is amazing. And your style of leadership is really about creating the unknown, and really creating collaboration along the way in developing the unknown. So I'm grateful that you came on the show today,
Ed Welburn
I really enjoy this time went by very fast, I enjoyed it. love to talk to you again sometime in the future.
Alan Fleischmann
Let's make a point of doing it again soon, and doing it regularly, because your thoughts and insights and your way of tackling the world, and tackling a career is inspirational, and I'd love to talk more. Thank you so much!
