Iván Duque

President of Columbia

“It was important to have a unified command in terms of the policy actions but also in terms of communicating."

Summary

In this episode of Leadership Matters, Alan and his longtime friend Colombian President Iván Duque discuss leadership at the highest level: running a country in the throes of an unprecedented global pandemic.

After receiving higher education in the United States, President Duque returned to his home country and later became President of Colombia in 2018 – the youngest president in the country’s history.

Since his election, President Duque has been an advocate for social and economic programs to bolster Colombians, particularly during the COVID-19 pandemic. Over the past year, President Duque attributes his successful leadership to communication, valuing communication above all else with his team and global leaders as they collectively endeavored to contain the spread of the deadly virus and increase global public welfare.

Mentions & Resources in this Episode

• Truman- click here to learn more about David McCullough’s book on Harry S. Truman

• Doris Kearns Goodwin- click here to learn more about the books of Doris Kearns Goodwin

Guest Bio

Iván Duque Márquez, is a Colombian politician and lawyer and is the current president of Colombia. As Colombia's youngest president, he was elected as the candidate from the Democratic Centre Party in the 2018 presidential election on a center-right platform. His decision to provide temporary protected legal status to nearly 1.7 million Venezuelan migrants drew praise from leaders around the world.

Follow President Duque on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter.

Clips from This Episode

• Colombia's daily TV program that keeps citizens informed throughout the COVID-19 Pandemic

• The protective measures Colombia took, once the country encountered its first case of COVID-19

• The need to protect both health & jobs, when guiding Colombia through the COVID-19 Pandemic

• The measures Colombia took to protect its workers, once the COVID-19pandemic hit the country

Episode Transcription

Alan Fleischmann 

You're listening to Leadership Matters on Sirius XM Radio. I'm your host, Alan Fleischmann. And I'm here today with someone very special. Someone very special to me, personally, someone very special to us globally. I am here with President Ivan Duque from the Republic of Colombia, who is calling in from Bogota. And it is something very special to me, and I'll tell you why. But first, let me give you a little bit of context. The Coronavirus is spreading quickly all over the world, but in parts of Latin America as well, where, in keeping with the region's diversity, there's been a wide range of national responses. Many in the region have taken strong measures to slow the spread with quarantines and travel restrictions. Colombia is one of those countries, I am pleased to have its president with me here today. Ivan Duque is my very, very close friend, Ivan Duque acted aggressively and early to help contain the virus, the spread and has received one of the highest marks worldwide, and certainly among his people in Colombia, for his decisiveness and his transparency. I've known President Duque for well over 20 years. And I'm pleased to say he's a fellow alumnus of American University. A lawyer by training, he was a Colombian representative at the Inter-American Development Bank, where he worked in Washington for many years, over a decade. And I've had the pleasure of being with him, and serving in many capacities with him on a personal level. I will say I remember even when he served closely with President Uribe. He's still a young man, only 42 years old, the father of three beautiful children, whom I adore, and has a wonderful wife, making him one of the youngest and most effective presidents not only in the nation's history, but in the hemisphere and globally. President Duque I know how busy you are, and you are right now with, not only the things that you're fighting for globally, but now with the COVID virus, the things you're doing domestically. And I'm just grateful that you've joined us here at Leadership Matters.

President Ivan Duque 

Well, thank you so much Alan. It's a great honor for me to be in Leadership Matters. It's also a great honor to share this time with you. You know, my appreciation to you, to your family, but also my my recognition of your leadership and know your knowledge on many policy actions around the world. So it's a great honor for me to be here. And it will be also a great opportunity for me to share some of the experiences that we have had in Colombia facing Coronavirus, but also to talk about other hemispheric and world affairs. So it's a great honor for me to be here on Leadership Matters.

Alan Fleischmann 

Thank you so much. I want to start off and get a little bit more personal with you in the sense that—for as long as I've known you and people have known you, you have been involved in public policy and in politics, certainly in public service. And I know of your great late father who I'm sure instilled a great deal of values in you. But I'd love to hear a little bit about what drove you to public service in the first place. And you know, going off to being a president, going to become a president is not something you do overnight. And as young as you are, I know that it's crystallized after years of service. So what drove you into public service?

President Ivan Duque 

Well, maybe I'll say that, since I have conscience, I always thought on public service. I always thought on politics. And I always thought on being an active participant in policymaking and decision making. And I certainly had an influence in my father, who for many years was a public servant. But also he was a scholar, he was an intellectual. And since I was a kid, he used to teach me things about politics, and about leadership without being invasive in what I wanted to do with my life. He never said I want you to do this or do that. But it was the sharing of his experiences, of his readings. And also, when he had the opportunity to introduce me, people he knew that I got a sense of what my real motivation in life was. So I always recall that. And in every step that I've taken in my life, I had his spirit, his knowledge behind me, and he passed away four years ago. And every single day that goes on, I cry him in silence in the silence of my soul. And I try to remember all his teachings and all his friendship with me, and then how he acted as a mentor, without being an invasive father that wanted to determine what my purpose in life was. So I really miss him. But I can tell you that the motivation I always had from him was that public service is the most important service that you can, that you can undertake as a life purpose. So he taught me to be always conscious of helping the people in need, the poorest of the poor. And always try to situate yourself in that in a spectrum, where you're not in there in the daily pork barrel politics, but you get to elevate your soul and your conscience to be able to serve the many. So I could say that that was my biggest motivation.

Alan Fleischmann 

You know, I probably—when I think about your father, and I think about you, I also think about—you're both not only leaders in your own countries—in your country, but you also were a student of other things that worked and didn't work globally. And I know you were a student, and always were of the US political system, but even globally. And while studying and working here in the United States, you saw the good and the bad things that worked. And I'm sure you brought back things to Colombia that you've incorporated in Colombia as well.

President Ivan Duque 

Indeed, indeed, I mean, I lived in the United States for almost 14 years of my life, but I also—when I was a kid, I used to visit the United States with frequency, I had an uncle who lived in Florida. So since I was a kid, I was exposed to you as culture. And then I lived for 14 years in the United States. And I'm a fan of US history and a fan of US politics. So I have tried to follow on a permanent basis what goes on in the United States. But by being able to read and to understand US politics, and US history, I got many, many lessons. And also I have books that allow me to see things with a broader perspective. I, for example, always recall the David McCullough book on Truman, and how a humble man became president of the United States with a clear sense of purpose, but also with the understanding of regular life. And he never got power— power crazy. He never got himself disturbed on what the real purpose of politics was. So I think that that book also had an influence on me—also the book of Doris Kearns Goodwin on Lincoln, and also the Bully Pulpit and also her book on leadership have made an influence for me, especially in times of, of crisis, and in times of stress. But I also have to tell you, Alan, that somebody who had made an influence on me when I was studying politics, and especially in times of crisis, was the story of JFK. And he was a young president, he had to deal with many crisis, but the way, the way he conformed his team, the decision making process he undertook, even in moments of great difficulty, like the Cuban Missile Crisis, also made an influence on me. So yes, I mean, being in the United States allowed me to learn a lot from US history, but also try to connect the dots and to and to exemplify, and try to see what things are comparable in Latin America, what things are comparable in Colombia? And, and I certainly believe that having that exposure in my life has made an impact on the way I address certain circumstances and especially in facing COVID-19. One of the things that I that consider have been lessons that I learned from US politics is: How do you organize the decision making process? How do you read information? How do you hear from different perspectives? And then how do you make the final decision? So everything that has happened throughout my life, working at the IDB working at the Ministry of Finance, being a senator, but also having the background of having seen decision making process in the history or even in this study of public policy, as I did in Georgetown, where I was a student of policy management, they all have come to today. And they come to my daily, my daily life. And I think all the decisions that we have been able to take have been based on data, have been based on information, are not biased by politics or by partisan sentiments. And I consider all of this are things that I have recalled and I have assumed throughout my life. So everything fortunately, has come together and helped me undertake the circumstances.

Alan Fleischmann 

You know, he really believed that at a time of crisis, you really see whether or not a student of leadership and a student of history can actually lead and prevail. And what you've been doing has been very striking. In the United States right now, I would say Governor Cuomo from New York, Governor of California, Governor Newsome, certainly my governor of Maryland, Larry Hogan, has been very popular governors, more so than, you know, obviously, the federal government's doing what they can do as well. And then one of the reasons why they governors have become such national figures right now is because they have taken decisive action, they've shared information and data, and they've done very frequent communications with the people. And then I look back in what you've been doing. And I think, Oh, my gosh, you've been doing all of that and more, and I can see why your popularity in the country has gone up, because you did that early on. You made some very difficult decisions before people were ready in many ways, but you saw what was coming. And you made some tough decisions. I gotta think that must have been a very lonely time because there weren't many examples of people doing as you did. But you made some very tough decisions to protect your people. And knowing that it would have economic consequences as well. I'd love you to walk through some of that thinking, that tick tock, if you will, of that beginning. Because you cut off the country from travel, you made sure people were protected at home, you've gotten food and resources to them. And am I right, when I hear that you have been having daily communication, not only with your own leadership team, but with a country, where you're talking with the people and updating them every day.

President Ivan Duque 

Well, yes, and but let me begin with a with a phrase that we regularly use in Latin American. Its that everybody becomes a general after the war. So once things pass, then you know, people start evaluating whether you did it right, you did it wrong, you did at the right time or not. So I see this, this pandemic as the most challenging crisis worldwide, maybe since World War Two. And nobody was prepared for this. I mean, people could be prepared for a health crisis, people could be prepared for a financial market crisis, people could be prepared for a trade crisis. But we have never, ever seen all the crisis together at the same time affecting everyone. Because world aggregated demand has been affected, trade has been affected, travel has been affected, tourism has been affected, remittances have been affected oil prices has been affected. And obviously you have the major health crisis. So it's all together. And I must say that maybe since I'm so obsessive with so many topics, has allowed me fortunately, to identify what could have happened with COVID-19. In one way last year, I was cheering Colombia, and former president Pastrana organized a conference with former heads of state from different parts of the world. So he invited me and I said, I wanted to host some of those former leaders to have a chat. And in that group, there was Gro Harlem Brundtland, who was a prime minister in Norway, and she was head of the World Health Organization in the past. And she was working on a report on world preparedness for health crises. And the report came out in October. And that report in the third chapter, refers to the possibility to have a world—to have a pandemic, based on a respiratory virus that could spread out over the world. And they were preparing an action—an action group to start working in September this year, but I started reading it. And in December, when we had the first situations taking place in Wuhan, I called the Minister of Health and I said, I think we should start looking at this closely, because we don't know whether this is going to spread or not. So since January, we've begun an action plan to be prepared and to be analyzing what was happening in in Busan and we became The first country in Latin America to have ground epidemiologists who are ready to do testing for COVID-19. And we started in early February with a unified management unit to evaluate what was going on with COVID-19. And we started asking migration questions in the airports, then we introduced temperature control, then we introduce the mandatory statement whether people have symptoms or not. And we started seeing the spread of the virus in Europe. And then we started seeing what was going on in other countries in Latin America. So we introduced restrictions from travelers that came from countries where there was COVID-19, that had to go in quarantine as soon as they got to Colombia. When we had the first case, we started to accelerate the process. So we we closed borders, we also limited events, not more than 50%. And then we even limited it an even more, then we said: No bars, no discos, no concerts. And then we also introduce other restrictions. Like for example, we said: No schools, no universities, and then people that were above 70 years old, will stay at home. And then we declared the national quarantine. But we declared the national quarantine, also having something close to 40% of the economy running so that we had the food supply, the medical supply, the services running. And we also introduced some protocols to those sectors. And we started to evaluate how Colombia was performing with the crisis. And when you look at Colombia today, in terms of deaths per million habitants, we are marking low in comparison to other countries in Latin America and other countries in the world. When we also identified that this could harm the ICU capacity, that was the reason why we kept people above 70 at home. And as of today, out of 2800, ICUs that are available for COVID-19 out of 5400 that we have in total, we are only using something close to less than 130. So it means that we that we have been able to navigate. The other thing is how many people we have in hospitals. We have less than 600 people with covid 19 out of 20,000 beds that are available. So that's also—it also helps us navigate. And then we also evaluated, out of testing, how many people are testing positive, out of the total tests that are taking place on a daily basis. And we see that that is below 10%. So when we followed those indicators, we decided: Okay, we're going to keep the quarantine, but we're going to start giving people the opportunity to go back to work with a level of protocols that are sound in terms of protecting health and protecting lives. So when we closed the first quarantine, and that was on April 13, then we extended to April 27. But we got the public works and we all got some industries that were reconverting to produce elements to phase COVID-19. And then we extend it until May the third. And then we allow other sectors to turn in. And now we have construction, we have manufacturing, and we're starting to open some elements of regular commerce. And now we're also giving some liberties for people to practice sports and to have a certain amount of time for kids to go out after May 11. So we have done this gradually, responsibly, and with the idea to protect lives, to protect the health system, but at the same time, to a be able to get the economy recovering within enough sentiment of public trust, public commitment, and public culture. So that social distancing, and all the hygiene that we all have to consider as something that is primarily for all of us are accomplished in Colombia. So sorry if I expand too long out and what I wanted to describe how the process has been evolving. And obviously we cannot take anything for granted. If we see that the evolution keeps on going positive. We keep on doing more forward steps. But if we see that there are things that are setbacks, then we have to be also very tough and taking the right draconian measures at the right time.

Alan Fleischmann 

Wow, I want to go more into that. You're listening to Leadership Matters on Sirius XM. I'm your host Alan Fleischman. I'm here with my good friend, the President of the Republic of Colombia, Ivan Duque, and we're talking about leadership, his journey, and Colombia being one of the most successful countries as far as in the fight against COVID-19, which has got to be one of the most difficult things that a leader, a political leader, a government leader has ever faced, not only, frankly, in the last 50 years, I would argue, probably ever. Because it's something that's affecting everybody everywhere, and it affects everybody in the country. One thing that has struck me is that in Colombia—it's something we're struggling with here. I personally have been working with business leaders, and with political leaders, with the White House, with Ivanka Trump, with leaders of both parties in the Senate. I've been working with folks who have been working closely in Treasury, how do we get the resources in this country to the most vulnerable? Who are often people of color, who don't have the, you know, that they have companies that are small, that don't have the relationships with banks, they're usually the salon owner, the restaurant owner, the essential workers that we care about. What I've noticed in Colombia, you've made a very strong effort economically, as well, to get food to those who would normally get food in schools. Tell me if I'm right. And also, I think I noticed that you've had an economic package as well to support the most vulnerable throughout this crisis, because it's an economic crisis that people did not invite, as well as a social crisis, because it's affecting everybody at home, as well as obviously a health crisis, which at first and foremost has to be your priority, but tell us about how you're dealing with the most vulnerable in the country?

President Ivan Duque 

That's a very important question, Alan, because at the time, when we had to take every single draconian measure, we were certain that it would produce impact in the way people behave, in the way people live. And obviously, it would affect the poorest of the poor, and what we regularly called the bottom of the pyramid. But also, we were conscious that there was gonna be an affection to SMEs, small and medium sized enterprises, that represent in Colombia, more than 90% of all the workforce. So what we tried to do on the mitigation of both challenges, was first thinking on the poorest of the poor. We have a program of conditional cash transfers in Colombia, which is big. But we had to do something that was really, really fast, aggressive, and impactful. So what we did is we have 2.6 million families in conditional cash transfer program called Families in Action. So we accelerated their dispersion of those resources. But we also introduce an extra, an extra addition of money. We have a program where we benefit  something goes to 266,000 kids of low income families, that is called Youth in Action. So we gave the resources, but we had—we added another amount, an extra amount. We have a program to protect the elderly, that are in need. And we're talking about something close to 1.7 million people that are above 60 years old that are in in poverty. So we also made an additional—an additional transfer. But we also included 60,000 more people above 70. That gives us universal coverage for the poorest of the poor that are under that age range. And we also introduce another program that is called the recovery of the VAT tax, which is the devolution of the VAT tax. There are many poor families that pay the VAT tax in Colombia. And that simply is unfair. So we tried to identify the poorest of the poor that regularly paid the VAT. And we're giving them back when they pay on the VAT tax. And that's around 1 million families in Colombia. And last but not least, we also identified that there were 3 million families in Colombia that never ever had received a conditional cash transfer program, that were in the informal economy. And we're talking about a country where maybe something close to 50% of the economy's informal. So we identified them, and we started giving the transfer to them. So that brings us to 10 million families in Colombia, that will receive their social safety net support, and that's something close to 30 million people in a country that has 15 million habitants. But it's not—but that's not all. We also introduced a credit line where we give 90% guaranteed for loans to SMEs in order for them to protect the paycheck of the people that are under the paycheck. And we guarantee 90%. And yesterday, we announced another measure where we are going to subsidize 40% of the equivalent of a monthly minimum salary in Colombia, to all the workers of companies that have faced a reduction of 20% or more in the sales that they have registered. So this is going to be an additional package for something close to 6 million former workers in Colombia. So we've tried to face the health challenge, but on the other hand, we have also faced the poorest of the poor and protecting formal jobs, we have taken the heat, and we have seen the impact that this produces in job creation, and we have seen people lose their jobs. But I think that the policies that we have been able to put together allow us to protect in the midst of the crisis, most of the families that are that are being affected. And I think the greatest challenge that we also face, is that in order to make this as impactful as we want, we also need to start getting more live work recovery as soon as possible in a responsible way. So for me, there's no dilemma of protecting health and protecting jobs. Both things are important. And they're important because they live together. Without a good job creation program in a country, you're not going to improve on a permanent basis, your health, and without good health, you're not going to have good employment. So there's no dilemma, we have to make both instruments that have to be phased and have to be phased with the same devotion and with the same policy action.

Alan Fleischmann 

You know what you're doing, also, actually, we should make sure we make sure that we have a bunch of your programs thought of in the United States, at the federal level and at the state level, what you're doing also is you're communicating it. Because I think one of the challenges, you can offer these very innovative and very supportive initiatives. But if people don't know about it, or they don't know how to be involved in it, you know, some of them are going directly to them. Others they have to actually apply for them, I'm sure. They don't know—they won't know they can do them. What I'm impressed by is the amount of time you're taking in your presidency to inform them to communicate directly with your people and letting them know that there is access to these programs and the support. And you do that daily. I know you said it. But I want to emphasize that that's a very important thing that you're communicating at different times during the day. And you're letting people know about these right?

President Ivan Duque 

Well, something that we decided with the communication team and with the decision-making team is that it was important to have a unified command in terms of the policy actions, but also in terms of communicating. So we decided to create a TV program that goes on air live at 6pm until 7pm. And that started since we declared maybe the quarantine. But we also had the opportunity to do it three times before the quarantine. So we have been on air, live one hour TV every day. And something that I want to value and that I also want to express gratitude is that even the private channels have decided to connect to the program at 6pm for that one hour. And in that one-hour program that goes on live, as President, I'm actually in the Cabinet Room. And telling the people was the decisions that we have been taking are but also doing pedagogy. And it's not just a monologue from the President. We call the people from the team. So we call the Minister of Health every day, the Minister of Finance, the Minister of Trade, we invite the Superintendent of Financial Institutions. We also have the people that are working on some of the social programs. For example, we have an institute that works on early childhood. And since we took the kids out of the preschools, we have been able to deliver 1.7 million food packages to their homes so that those kids keep on receiving some of the food they regularly receive in the public preschools. But also, since we had a lot of kids in public schools that get the meals in the public schools, and that's a very important meal for the day, we also have those meals being delivered to the homes. So when formed on a personal—on a permanent basis, how those programs are being evolving. Sometimes you're we have maybe committed mistakes. So it's good to tell the people, you know, we thought this was going to be a this, but it turned out to be this. And let me give you an example. We initially thought on, on giving a guarantee or 50%, for the loans to protect the paycheck. But then we realized 50% was not enough to get the credit moving, and then we got to 90%. But having that information that is transparent, sincere, it was also very important to let the people know that we're doing our best that we're trying to do our best. And it's not the presidency is not just the figure of the presidency, is the figure of government. And we have also used the space to have the governors in the program. So we call governors from different states. How are you doing in your state? Are the things getting the way they should get to the poorest of the poor? And also to be able to praise the good job that they're doing in the regions, and also mayors. And also being able to express gratitude to the people that are working in the military forces, people that are working on the health system, that are the for frontline workers. So I think this space, has been a space of communication, pedagogy, and something that is very important to be able to share the voice of the government. And as I have said many times, I'm not running for reelection, there's no reelection in Colombia. I'm finishing my term in 2022. So this has only one purpose, and it is Colombia. This is not a battle between right and left or center right or center left. This is just a pure discussion on how do we as a nation face, this extraordinary circumstance. And what prevails is the sentiment of facing as Colombians, the challenge, but also being able to put my favorite world word into table: resilience. To be able to turn the most worrisome adversity into the best opportunity for our country. And I think Colombians have done a great workout. And this is not a country that has the social discipline that you could see in Asia or in some other countries in Europe. But when you see how Colombians have behaved, it is with great discipline, with great coordination with great solidarity. And I think the only winner of this circumstance is Colombia as a whole, a whole nation. And that's what drives me every day to be able to connect to the people at 6pm and remind them every day that we are one team, one nation, and that we have to prevail in their circumstance.

Alan Fleischmann 

Wow, you're listening to Leadership Matters on Sirius XM. I'm your host, Alan Fleischmann. We're here today with my good friend, the President of the Republic of Colombia, calling in from Bogota, Ivan Duque, I'm struck by the way you just talked about unifying the country. You know, maybe one of the silver linings in this is that it not only in Colombia, but elsewhere is where you're seeing a non partisanship and certainly with the way you're approaching it, probably maybe more so even in Colombia, and maybe one of the outgrows here will be in—that there'll be much more cooperation at the federal level among the different leaders and parties, but also at the state and municipal levels as well. Because, you know, we forget to be proud of government. And we forget in life, that government can be the best of ourselves. And you know, we started this conversation talking about your lifelong respect of public service and the values of public service; you're living it now. But if we could actually appreciate government, in a way that very—without cynicism, and with humility, knowing that it's not always perfect and you take risks, it would be a very unifying moment. Are you seeing some things there that you hope will be well after the pandemic is behind us? That will be a new way of appreciating public life and government? That maybe you would not have seen at the beginning?

President Ivan Duque 

I hope so. But it's not—but it's not easy. I mean, we we see this, this pandemic, in the midst of many other things happening in the world, but I—let me make some reflections, Alan, and from an—maybe from a spiritual point of view, and it is that, I think we all have to recognize that Motherland is talking to all of us. I mean, when we see what's going on in the world, and for example, we are able—were able to—we are able to, in a certain moment, see that the quality of air, the quality of nature, the quality of the environment, is being protected in what the world decides to be inside our homes. I think we all have to reflect on climate change. And we all have to reflect on what kind of behaviors we can undertake in order to serve better nature. And it is because of that, for example, when I see now the possibility for us, using virtual communications, that maybe we could travel less. And maybe we could be—we can we can do more homework and we can do more home education. And we can do some other uses of technology that produce less stress on nature. That doesn't mean that after COVID. we have to be all confined at home. But maybe some of our daily habits can change, and we can change in a positive way. The other thing that I that I, that I want to highlight is that this crisis has also make us reflect on on humanism, and the way we behave with each other because this is no time for charity. This is time for a solidarity. Because, you know, when you talk about the world charities, you know, you're giving something that maybe you don't need it that much, or maybe it represents something, but it's not a big contribution. But when it's solidarity, it's that we all have to work together and be able to face the circumstances together. And I also think, another reflection and it is about, for example, multilateralism, that the great lessons that I've taken, and maybe I'm going to be too blunt in this, is that I think this has demonstrated that multilateralism didn't work out to face this pandemic. Because we're not acting coordinatingly. We're all taking the measures that we believe are sufficient and enough to protect our people. But I think if we could have done something earlier, in terms of coordination—how do we manage airspace? How do we manage our borders? How do we manage the health system? And even how do we manage the capacity to produce ventilators? Or reactives? Maybe we could have we could have had a better reaction as the world and you know, as I said before, after the world, everybody becomes the general. But it happened too fast. But I think the lessons that we're taking out of this is that real multilateralism is: how do we prepare? And how do we face circumstances like this? Because I'm certain this is not going to be the last time we faced a situation like this. Hopefully it is. But it's not going to be the last time. But I don't know, how long is it going to take when we face a new one. But now that we have taking the lessons, at least now for the future mitigation, and for the world economy recovery, I think multilateralism has to be put on the challenge to face and find common solutions. And since the economic crisis is going to demand the best of the IMF, the World Bank, the Central Bank, the European Central Bank, but also the OAS, United Nations. I think that reconstruction after COVID-19 has to be the great challenge for the new stage of multilateralism. Because we are going to be all in highly indebted, we're all going to face tremendous fiscal deficits. So we cannot react in the common way on the way we used to react before. And this is going to be a great message, I believe for the world. You know, in a nutshell, in a nutshell, Alan, I think this is all giving us lessons. And something that is very important I also want to highlight: family, family. It's not the discussion about what kind of family. It is a discussion about family as something important for society. This pandemic has made it all realize the importance of family, the importance of being able to share with the people we love, that we don't have them close together every day. And I think it also gives us a great sense of responsibility with those who are the ones that are the heroes in this pandemic, those who are working in the food supplies, those who are working in agriculture, those who are working on the health system, those who are working on transportation. Everything that we're learning today is to value many things that we took for granted. And I think this is going to be the biggest lesson of this pandemic.

Alan Fleischmann 

I love what you said a minute ago. It's not a time for charity, but a time for solidarity. I think that is so enormously inspiring. I also think, you know, when I think of Colombia, and I think of your priorities, you've been very much focused on human ingenuity, on entrepreneurship, on, you know, the miracle that I think that Ayin was and is represented globally, but you've been doing it also in Bogota and other places. And I hope that you know, one of the things that we need more of when you talk about multilateralism at a at a government level, you know, the shared sciences, you know, when you talk about humanity, you know, the best scientists and the best entrepreneurs in Colombia sharing with the best scientists and the best, you know, entrepreneurs in the United States and elsewhere across the hemisphere and beyond. That is something I hope will come out of this. I imagine hearing you talk, I can imagine it's possible, you know, where you know, where the best leading discovers just collaborate across borders. And yes, you might design and develop it in Bogota, or in Medellín. But it may have an enormous impact in the United States or Asia or elsewhere. That's kind of multilateralism on the economic front. Would be great to keep, as well.

President Ivan Duque 

Yes. But I also want to say something, Alan, and I want to link it to your question. And it was maybe an interview or an article that was published some days ago by Richard Haass, where he said something that I consider very important. This is going to accelerate history. This pandemic is going to accelerate history like we hadn't seen in a long time. Why? Because we're learning things very fast. We're learning things about virtual education that we never thought before. We always thought, Okay, well, you could do a virtual education. And in fact, you could be in a virtual program. But now you're realizing that may be the way we conceived school schedules are going to change forever. Why does everybody have to be in school at eight or nine? Why we all have to stay in school after 4pm? Why do we have to go to school from Monday to Friday? So this is going to change education forever. But the other thing, this is going to accelerate FinTech like no other time in the world. So you're gonna see many developing countries getting out of cash faster than they even suspected. Because it also helps in health terms. But you're gonna—you're also going to see about the evolution of telemedicine. Like you never thought it before. I mean, we always talked about it, we knew we were going to get there. But this is the biggest acceleration on telemedicine that we could dream. And this is going to allow more people maybe to get some coverage to be diagnosed by doctors in a faster way. And even to expand and to universalize the coverage in some developing countries. But this is also going to be a transformation in terms of how do we work. So we don't have to be in the office every day at 7 A.M. and or a nine to five job. This is telling us that you can have more flexibility for a lot of work around the world, even in developing countries. And it's about quality of life. And it's also about the balance between work and family. So this is also teaching us that that is going to be another revolution. But the other thing, is even the way we engage—we, I mean I've been able maybe to see more heads of state during the pandemic that what I regularly dis on a year base, on a yearly basis.

Alan Fleischmann 

Now you're doing things zoom or video.

President Ivan Duque 

Yes, we're doing more video conferencing with the presidents in South America. We had three summits or two summits in a month, which is which is fantastic. And maybe we can start using technology to have better coordination as well. So this is changing and accelerating history. But there are also things that we have to move very fast in order to close the gaps. So this make us realize that we have to do more in the health system. In the case of Colombia, something that I consider has been very important is that we are a country that has maybe one of the highest amount of ICUs per million inhabitants in Latin America. Even in the Americas. We have 54000 ICUs in Colombia. And we have 2800 are devoted now for COVID-19. And we're using maybe a 130. But when we compare ourselves with the Netherlands, for example, they have 1100. When you look at a countries like the US with more than 310 million inhabitants and it has something close to 60,000 ICUs, you realize that we have a good capacity, but we have to keep on improving it. We need to have more ventilators around the country in order to have more ICU capacity. So when I see something that is going to be the heritage after the pandemic, we certainly want to have a better health system and we want to have better PPE and we want to have better telemedicine But we also want to have more people knowledgeable about what they can do to prevent diseases. And I raised this, because in the last few months, we've seen some regular tropical diseases in Colombia being reduced. Why? Because we have more people washing their hands, three, four, five, ten times a day. So all these are lessons that we take. And if we connect all these lessons with the users of technology, I think we're going to get to the most advanced acceleration in history that we have seen in recent decades.

Alan Fleischmann 

I love how you covered it, and it is an opportunity to advance and those are the words I use when I talk to friends and clients and business leaders is that, you know, obviously, those in the hospitality industry or in the small businesses are suffering, and we got to do what we need to do, solidarity, like you said, to support them. But there's an opportunity to bring forth the best ideas and advance them now. And the best practices and accelerate them now. I love the idea that you and fellow presidents are talking now more often. When you think about the formality of scheduling has changed, where people can pick up the phone or do a zoom call, to collaborate, that social distancing is ending, you know, in many ways. And I want to make sure that we do talk one more minute or two on family, I think, you know, you're obviously a father, as well, and a husband, and I know you have an extraordinary wife, who's the first lady of Colombia, who is your partner in many things quietly, but supportively, and she has her own leadership. And then you have three children. How do you juggle? Right now you probably don't juggle very well. With the pandemic, but how do you juggle and, and what is your message to family because I know it's an enormously—

President Ivan Duque 

You, you know, me, you know me very well. And you know, I'm a family man, and maybe I'm too old fashioned in that sense. But I'm proud to be old fashioned, in terms of being a very enthusiastic family man. And we try to share many things with my wife, with the kids. And this has been—this has been a very challenging moment for me. And I have faced very difficult times, especially, I regularly suffer when I see, you know, people dying, or I see people that have been frontline workers been affected, or when I see families that are in need. And that was a big call that I made when we declared the quarantine. So let's do something big in terms of, of solidarity, and in terms of generosity, which is different than charity. Because charity is something that is permanent. I mean, we all have, we all do some charities around the day, around the year, around our permanent basis. But generosity is different. And generosity means: I have to give something that is really meaningful. So Maria Juliana, my wife, as first lady, she launched a campaign, inviting the Colombian citizens to, in a generous way, allow those families that were not going to have enough food in the middle of the quarantine. And she called business leaders, people that work in—that were in foundations, and people that work in in the local governments. And they have been able to mobilize food around the country. And it's in the name of all Colombians. And I'm impressed because she—she's really getting the best out of her and she goes to to those places in the profound Colombia to give the food packages in the name of all Colombians. So as a family that has united as a lot on generosity and solidarity, but also as a family, we have been able to share time and they see how—that the long, the long days that I have trying to find a solution here solution there. And then also possibly impacted by by the sentiment of the kids. I mean, they know that they have to put a lot of the share in this because they're doing everything virtually, they're not going out. Sometimes they get desperate, they get cranky. But at the end, they even recognize that this is for the purpose of saving lives and protecting others. And I was making this recall, Alan, because you know, I have this conversation with some of my workmates and they say, you know this is going to be very difficult for the kids, they've been confined for almost a month and a half and now they're going to be confined for two months. But then I realized that my great grandma, who lived into 105 years old. She was born before the 20th century. And he had to face two world wars, one pandemic, one leg in the crash of the 1930s. And that generation, never, I never heard my great grandmother ever is saying, Oh, do you know this life has been so a complicated because we as a generation pass through all this. And obviously, there are people that are going to be more affected than others. But I think this is going to be a very important challenge for this generation. But as parents, what we should do with the kids, with our sons with the daughters, is allowed them to value this very complicated circumstance as once in a lifetime experience that can allow them to be more inventive, more creative, more conscience, more spiritual, and more devoted to the things that really matter in life. And I think that what they're going to get out of this, hopefully, will make this new generations, generations that are more conscious than maybe ours, and maybe the ones that preceded us, and if that is for the good sake of the world, will let it be. And that—those are the kinds of conversations that we have embraced as family. And maybe since we are also, in a certain way, confined, I have been able to get the best out of every minute I have with them. Because, you know, being a president, the president of Columbia, with the amount of time that that you have to devote to the regions to move from one place to the other. Now in this quarantine has helped us being together and share many, many things. So I always try to get the best out of it. But I am also reflecting on something, Alan. I think the Colombian families in general, have had that sentiment and I have to praise the behavior of all Colombians, because they have taken this seriously. Of course there are people who want to, you know, break the law and go out and try to challenge the law, or challenge their circumstance or even challenge the epidemic, in general, the Colombian people have behaved in an exemplary way. And I think that's something that we want to keep as a nation, and is that in times of unexpected, and exceptional circumstances, we have the best of all the families and all the people together.

Alan Fleischmann 

You know, when I think of some of the great leaders of our time, I think you're one of them honestly, because you take to the leadership with such certainty and then humility. But you know, there's this great Mandela quote, you know, "Courage is not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it." And during these uncertain times, I think whether you're a leader, or a, or a family member, whether you're old or young, there's an enormous amount of fear because there's so much unknown, so much uncertainty, it's a moment for leadership, you know, where people can step up and say, together, we will figure this out. And we will help each other and we will do it in a solidarity way. You're doing that. So I can see why the people of Colombia are rallying, I can see why the people of Colombia are expressing support for you, and what you're doing, because you're talking with a certainty of confidence, that even the things that we don't know, even the things that we're uncertain of, we will figure out and do it together. And you are offering all the resources of government to do it. You know, there's a lot to be learned here. And you say, well, we look back on this history, we're gonna see who the generals were. But I think there's a lot to be learned here in Colombia, in what you're doing, that we hope that we can take to other parts of the hemisphere in the United States and elsewhere, as you're bringing the best of good things to your own home. Your leadership matters. And this is the theme of the show. But as a student of leadership, and someone who has been a close personal friend, as well, as an admirer of your work and your leadership, I am grateful that you spent the last hour with us and I'm grateful that you're doing everything you do and I'm looking forward to hearing and seeing and watching you in the next few years. As you take Colombia to a next level. It's very impressive.

President Ivan Duque 

Thank you. Thank you so much for those generous words. And it has been an honor for me being on Leadership Matters. And I also want to praise you for this amazing experience that you're—you have undertaking and I am certain that the people who are listening to this space on a regular basis, value this kind of conversations. And you've been a not only a student, but you've been an advisor of leadership—in leadership and you have advised many, many people, but something that I also want to highlight is that you're a family man, that you represent who looks always beyond the regular patterns and the kind of, of maybe profoundness that you have, brings to this show, to this space, the possibility of many people to get into the hearts and minds of the leaders that you interview. And for me, it has been a great honor. And I want to thank you for allowing me to speak with you and to be able to share the Colombian experience with all the people who followed this this space. And in the networks.

Alan Fleischmann 

You know, before the COVID virus 61 people were listening to Sirius XM Radio. Now 81 million, they're saying. It's amazing. But I would say—and people want to know about leaders, there's an enormous void for it. I hope you'll come back on the show because I'd love to be able to tell people who listen all across, in every age group, what you're doing and the learn from it. So if you will be so generous, we can bring you back and talk more about how you're approaching not only this challenge, but so many other challenges in your time of leadership and and thank you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart that you joined us today.

President Ivan Duque 

Thank you so much. All the best to you and the family and have a great weekend.

Alan Fleischmann 

You too.