Paula Schneider

President & CEO of Susan G. Komen

“Now, it's up to corporate leaders to stand up and do something good because they have that platform. It's incumbent upon them to do it."

Summary

In this episode of Leadership Matters, Alan and Susan G. Komen President and CEO, Paula Schneider, dive into the responsibilities of leadership, including passion and fortitude.

After a lucrative career in the fashion and apparel industry as CEO of American Apparel, Paula changed career paths after becoming a breast cancer survivor herself, having lost her mother to metastatic breast cancer. Paula joined Susan G. Komen as president and CEO in 2017.

In her role as CEO, Paula has innovated the women’s health industry, fighting for breakthrough research, direct patient support, and patient advocacy to improve outcomes both pre- and post-diagnosis.

Paula has also arisen as a steadfast supporter of the fight for racial equity and social justice, advocating for and creating new initiatives to support Black women, who are 40% more likely to die of breast cancer than their white counterparts.

Mentions & Resources in this Episode

• Susan G. Komen - click here to learn more about Susan G. Komen

• Angela Ahrendts - click here to learn more about Angela Ahrendts

Guest Bio

Paula Schneider is president and CEO of Susan G. Komen®, responsible for the strategic direction and day-to-day operation of Komen’s research, community health, public policy advocacy and global programs.

Schneider brings a personal perspective to Komen’s mission as a breast cancer survivor whose mother died of metastatic breast cancer.

Schneider is widely regarded as an expert in organization management and finance, serving as president and CEO of American Apparel and Delta Galil Premium Brands and as president at Warnaco Swimwear Group. She served in strategic advisory roles at the private equity firm, The Gores Group.

A featured speaker at Fortune’s Most Powerful Women Summit in 2016, Schneider also was named one of Los Angeles Business Journal’s 500 Most Influential People for 2016 and garnered the National Association of Women’s Business Owners Inspiration Award in 2010.

As Komen’s president and CEO, Schneider is responsible for the world’s largest breast cancer research portfolio (almost $1 billion in funding to date), and a network of more than 80 Komen Affiliates serving millions of women and men in the United States and globally.

Follow Paula on Twitter at @CEOPaula.

Clips from This Episode

• On Komen's efforts to create a community for those suffering from breast cancer

• On Komen's "Robust, Big Thinking" partnerships

• "I Think COVID is going to have very, very detrimental effects on breast cancer."

• On the ways that Komen has adapted to the COVID-19 pandemic

• "Cash cures cancer!"

• “African Americans are 40% more likely to die of breast cancer!”

• Will Susan G. Komen's famous fundraising walks return?

Episode Transcription

Alan Fleischmann 

You're listening to Leadership Matters on Sirius XM. I'm your host Alan Fleischmann. I'm here with Paula Schneider, the CEO and president of Susan G. Komen, the world's leading nonprofit source of funding, and frankly, galvanizing for the fight against breast cancer, serving millions of patients and communities in more than 60 countries and helping to reduce the breast cancer mortality rate by 40% since 1989.  Paula is responsible for the strategic direction and day to day operation of Komen's multimillion dollar research, community health, public policy advocacy, and global programs. But her—and I know her well, she's a good friend—this is not just a business or organization. It's personal. Paula herself is a breast cancer survivor, and her mother died of metastatic breast cancer. She has been a featured speaker at thought leadership forums, such as fortunes most powerful women summit, the Milken Institute's Future of Health Summit, and she was named one of Los Angeles Business Journal's 500 most influential people for 2016 and garnered the National Association of Women's Business Owners inspiration award in 2010. I am so excited to be with Paula today. On this show, we get to talk about leaders and leadership matters. And really get into the DNA of what makes a leader tick. And I don't know anyone who was more, that is more I guess, born to be a CEO, than you, Paula. So I am just thrilled to have you on and talk about issues. But I, I'm gonna really want to go into the nitty gritty of the Paula Schneider journey as well, because a lot of our listeners really want to know not only the how to, but the who. And we'll do that today as well. Welcome.

Paula Schneider 

Thank you, wow, born to be seen as CEO. Okay, we'll go with that.

Alan Fleischmann 

I love it. It's true. It's true. I mean, you've had a very unusual career in the sense that, you know, when people think of those who are devoted in the nonprofit industry, you know, you don't usually meet people who have had kind of retail, private sector, private equity experience that you've had. So I'd love you to walk us through—let's start with where you were born and where you were raised, and your parents, literally.

Paula Schneider 

That's a very long interview, Alan.

Alan Fleischmann 

We have two hours now. But if you could actually start there, where you were born and a little bit about your parents. And then let's get into your career a little bit the journey because it is an unusual journey to get to where you are now. And I know it's it was meant to be because you've, you know your goal, being able to have purpose and actually outcomes in your life. So tell us about Paula Schneider.

Paula Schneider 

Paula Schneider was born in San Francisco, many, many moons ago. But my father was a battalion fire chief of San Francisco. And my mom was a homemaker. I'm the youngest of four kids. And we grew up in Millbrae. And it was a sort of very humble, but lovely upbringing. Didn't feel like we missed out on much, even though we had six of us in the house with one bathroom. Didn't think that that was unusual. So I went to high school there, I went to college at Chico State University, because it was literally rated the number one party school in the country. And that was my—that was my motivation for going there. I can't tell you what it was great at. But we had a wonderful time while I was there. And it was certainly one of the most fun places that I'd ever been. And then I got into, I got my teaching credential went into teaching for one year decided, not for me. Really enjoyed it, but you can't make enough money to live, which is too bad because teaching is so important. And I went into the apparel sector, and spent many, many years running different major organizations and all in Los Angeles, in the fashion and apparel sector, and wholesale and retail, and it was, that was you know, coming from sort of humble beginnings and understanding that people go to Paris and see shows and go to New York and see Fashion Week, it was really exhilarating, and really great fun. And it was in a very profitable time for the industry where retail was thriving. And it was all about product and placement and planning. And it was, it was really, I'd say a wonderful time in my life until it wasn't.

Alan Fleischmann 

And was it clear to you? Well, I guess I'll say it differently. When was it clear to you that you wanted to move? Well, you were in the private sector in apparel, but you also did you had a stint in private equity. So obviously, your leadership around private industry was quite was quite, I guess quite profound, fortunately, for most of your career. What made you decide then to move to an organization that has a very different purpose?

Paula Schneider 

Well, I you know, even when I was in private equity, it was in he consumer sector. And I was working for an organization, an equity company that had the opportunity to look at many, many, many different businesses and buy a few, one of which I was the first female CEO of that organization out of 52 businesses. So that was sort of breaking through glass ceilings. And I remember going to the, you know, the group meetings where all the CEOs were together, and I thought, Oh, this is going to be great fun. I'm the only woman there and it was like, literally, almost no one talked to me. So it was a very different moment in time, because in the fashion industry was predominantly women. And then I moved into private equity. And I did that for a while. And then I had the auspicious opportunity to become the CEO of American Apparel, which was the biggest turnaround on the planet. I did that for two years, I took us through a plan bankruptcy and went from being a publicly traded company to a private company and was owned by five different hedge funds, which was, you know, a bit challenging, and then decided that I was going to tap out, go do something that was a little bit different for me. And then I ran one more public company after that. I remember distinctly, I was getting an award at the Women in Retail conference, which is in Miami, and it's a super fun conference with literally—on the beach in Miami, and a lot of great women. And I was getting an award for being one of the top female retailers in the country. And as I was down there, I met with another friend of mine that ran another big company. And we had breakfast that morning. And I said to her that I just honestly, I don't know how much longer I want to do this, because I don't care if I sell one more pair of jeans to Bloomingdale's. You know, I can do it. But I don't really want to, I need to do something that's much more gratifying and much more motivating for me. And then we went into the conference, I got up to give my speech to accept my award, which was really nice. But you know, the night before I was trying to think of some speech that would be about empowerment, because of course, it was a women's conference. And that was the theme. And I got up and I gave a speech that was from the heart. And it was about being the most empowered when I was the least physically powerful. When I had breast cancer. And I went and finished the speech, I sat down next to my friend again. And she said to me, look at this, I just got an email from a friend of mine who's a recruiter in Dallas, and they're looking for a new CEO of Susan G. Komen. Would you ever consider doing something like that? And I said, Yes, I would. And that's literally what started this journey. And I—that was on a Thursday. Friday I talked to my husband about it. It meant moving from Los Angeles, Los Angeles to Dallas, which is, you know, a pretty significant life change in many, many ways. And I decided we were going to go for it. And I literally went in and quit my job on Monday. And I was running a publicly traded company. And it was a big one. And I just said that this isn't for me. And I, you know, happy to help you with a transition. But I'm going to go and do something else. And it didn't matter that I didn't even have an interview. At that moment in time, I didn't have an interview, I had just heard of the opportunity, had no idea whether they'd be interested in me, I'd be interested in them. And then it progressed from there. But I knew I didn't want to do what I was doing anymore. And there comes a time when you can make those decisions. And that's the beauty of being an adult.

Alan Fleischmann 

How long ago was that?

Paula Schneider 

That was actually three years ago, three years ago in May. And this whole thing started and I then got started the interview process at Komen and, you know, I blathered to the board later that the last thing in the world you should actually do is bring somebody down to Texas in the middle of summer three times for an interview process, because if you really don't want him to take the job, that's exactly the way to do it. But I ended up taking the job and it's been the most gratifying and the greatest opportunity in my life—career opportunity that I've ever had.

Alan Fleischmann 

You're listening to Leadership Matters on Sirius XM. I'm your host, Alan Fleischmann. I'm here with my good friend Paula Schneider, the president and CEO of Susan G. Komen, the world's leading nonprofit source of funding for the fight against breast cancer. It is really a pleasure to talk about these issues with you. You know, when you think about leadership, and you talked about how when you in the private equity world, there were very few women for example, right, there were sounds like there were maybe none, you said yourself, in the world. So you were navigating it. Who were some of your leadership mentors and how have they influenced you? Because I imagine you had a call on some great mentors, or at least some role models along the way that you saw a lot of them probably in fashion and apparel. Didn't see too many in the next phase of your career.

Paula Schneider 

Yeah, I'd say you know, the leadership mentor happened to be one of the best bosses that I ever had, which was a woman by the name of Angela Ahrendts. And Angela was, you know, it was when I was working at Liz Claiborne and I was running a company called Laundry by Shelli Segal. It was my first president role. And she was the group president over a bunch of different organizations, with companies within the organization. And she just—her manner and the way that she gave me enough rope to run, right, because, you know, you have to understand how people work and what, what their bent is. And if you get someone like me, that doesn't love a whole lot of oversight, and wants to be able to have the opportunity to try new things and make a few mistakes, but I'll be mostly right, then, you know, that was—I was a good hire for her. And she was a great boss for me, because she allowed me that latitude to make a lot of decisions and made it feel like it was my own organization. And, you know, she went on to become the CEO of Burberry, and then one of the top people at Apple. So, you know, she had great leadership skills, and I hope that I learned from her and emulate that in some of my leadership skills.

Alan Fleischmann 

That's extraordinary. You know, at Susan G. Komen, you know, pre-pandemic, you know, you've been focused on an enormous amount of research and advocacy around health disparities, you know, major ones, and when and when you're thinking about right now, you know, pre, you know, pre pandemic, we were talking about the inequities, you know, the food deserts, I think we've gotten into COVID. And this whole pandemic, we've been talking about, you know, the health deserts and many ways, something that you've been working on for quite a long time. And then now, even the economic deserts, I think that, you know, the inequalities. The inequities, though around health is an area that I know, drew you to Susan G. Komen. And it's a big part of what you've been building in the last few years. I don't know how many people know that, you know, you're not, you're not coming to this, you know, with inspiration through a travesty of recent times, you actually are stepping up now even more so. But you have been doing this for several years, can you tell us a little bit about what those health disparities are for African Americans in particular, and how you've been focused on this, this human rights crisis, I guess, is what you've called it in the last few years.

Paula Schneider 

Yeah, if you are African American, and you get breast cancer, or I get breast cancer, you are 40% more likely to die. And that's just the average, there are some cities that are up to 70, or 80%, which is just completely, completely unacceptable. So it shouldn't be where you live, that dictates whether you live it shouldn't be what color you are, that dictates whether you live. So we have worked really, really hard at Komen to—if our goal is to decrease deaths, for breast cancer, then you have to do two things. One, you have to deal with the cancers that kill which is a metastatic side of breast cancer, because breast cancer won't kill you it, it's when it turns metastatic and then it kills you, right, it spreads throughout your body. And the second is disparities in healthcare. And we feel that we could, you know, cause significant less deaths, deaths, if we just got people to the care that exists today. And there's a lot of challenges with being able to do that, you know, if you're an African American, there might be cultural issues that happen. There might you might get later stage diagnosis, which seems to be the case and and more difficult types of breast cancer, triple negative is more prevalent in the African American community. It's one of the most difficult types of breast cancer to treat, and the outcomes aren't as good. It's actually the type that I had as well. So it's really just getting people to the care that exists. And you have to figure out why aren't they getting the care that that exists and figure out how you understand that better, and not come in as the great hope, you know, and figure out from the communities. Why is it happening? Because just by giving out breast cancer, mammogram vouchers didn't decrease death rates. So you have to understand the story behind the story. And that means going deep in the community and finding out what is happening there. And then what are the interventions that we can do to change the outcomes?

Alan Fleischmann 

What kind of interventions have you discovered? I know you have an 11, city wide—11 City initiative across the United States, but you also had a pilot that you were involved in. That gave you a lot of, I guess a lot of insight about how honestly the gap can be closed, with the right access and the right and the right information, the right awareness and the right you know, I guess community activism as well.

Paula Schneider 

Right. And Komen was involved with Chicago and there was a pilot program in Chicago that was looking at the disproportionate impact on African American women versus white women, right. And what happened was they figured out that, you know, there was some treatment centers that were reading mammograms incorrectly. There's some financial toxicity, there's getting to and from treatment, which is one of the biggest things that stop people from going to treatment of any color, right, which is really amazing. Because at this point in time, you can get Uber, you can get Lyft, you can get there. But you may have to decide whether you're going to feed your family or you're not, or you're going to get your treatment taken care of if you're under insured, or you have no insurance. So we have 11 cities that we're working on, and we're working on the landscape analysis, it's going to help us get the information that we need, so that we can make interventions that are really going to move the needle. In Chicago, the interventions that were put into place, reduce the death count, or the disparities by 25%, or 35%, rather, in five years. So we have a pilot program that worked. And now we are working on this in the next 11 cities. And by the way, that's just the 11 cities. And we're talking big cities here, there's LA, there's Dallas, there's Philadelphia, there's, Chicago, there's Georgia, Atlanta, I mean, you know, these are not small cities, there's—these are the first 11 cities, but there's another 150 cities right after these. So it's really it's a very labor intensive labor of love for Komen, because it's the right thing to do to help women get to the care that they need. Because we really can—you don't have to make another medical breakthrough in order to help women live. And that's what's happening right now. So it is social injustice that this happens at all. And when COVID came around, and you're hearing all the statistics, and some people are really surprised at what's happening in the African American community, and that they're dying at a higher rate. That doesn't surprise me at all, because we have had the same experience for the last, you know, for the three years that I've been here. And for,

Alan Fleischmann 

And nowing that you can save lives starting now, not waiting for a so called cure. You're going to save lives by having early interventions and the right kind of access.

Paula Schneider 

That's right.

Alan Fleischmann 

Which is quite devastating in the fact that almost like the COVID thing, just illuminated something that's been going on in the breast cancer space for quite a while.

Paula Schneider 

Exactly right.

Alan Fleischmann 

Yeah. Which is pretty horrible. How are you dealing with, you know, the sheltering in place and being home? Meaning that, you know, you've got these initiatives, you know, you're known for being out there in the community, you personally, you also—you have an organization that's known for being right there in the community, as well. And obviously, your 11 City initiative is right there in the community, how are you able to do what you need to do? And obviously, it's gonna be a little bit different during COVID. Have you figured out ways in which you can continue what you're doing. And if someone's listening to the show right now, and they're thinking, you know, I have access to resources that could partner with you, or that I'm, you know, in the community right now, even during COVID, that if I only parted with Komen, I could be helpful here. Because we've got to be sent insensitive here to a population that can't wait. You can't wait, you know, and the urgency is still there, even though we're going through a pandemic.

Paula Schneider 

I'm going to I'm going to divide that into two parts. There's the fundraising side, right, because the fundraising side, it is pretty robust. I mean, you know, if for anyone that has not seen a pink ribbon, or seen one of our races, and walks of the million people that we draw to the community of races and walks. It's, you know, pretty devastating in certain ways, because, of course, we cannot have those races in walks, nor would we want to right now, because of the making sure that we wouldn't bring a population that might be more impacted by COVID. So we have to be very, very careful about what we do. So we have diversified our fundraising, we are doing more transformational partnerships, we are also doing more with technology. And technology can also help us in in the fundraising side, and we've invested actually quite a bit in the last couple of years in our technology and our data segmentation and talking to people in a way that they can actually hear because some people care very much about research, some people care more about community, some people are more prone to give to one versus the other. So we've done a lot of work on data segmentation, and that is bearing fruit, which is really good because you know, we need it, there's no one that's around that's going to take our place and we have to be here. And then the other side is on mission delivery. The way that we have been set up before is we had 61 affiliates, then that were each their own 501(c)(3). And they all rolled up to a total with HQ, which created the total revenue and expense and etc. of Komen. And during the course of the pandemic, you know, community is incredibly important to us and a lot of times we are the first responder that happens in communities when someone gets a breast cancer diagnosis or someone in their family does. And they call Komen or go on our helpline and they get, you know, rational, calm decision making. We help them through their journey. And that's super important because you know, when you get a breast cancer diagnosis, you go into a black hole until you can get information and data and, you know, have some helping hands to help you climb out of that black hole. So there's, there's the fundraising side of it. And then there's the mission delivery side of it. So with 61 affiliates throughout the organization, many of which had their own marketing people had their own finance people , had their own, you know, IT people, all of that can be handled through a back end at Komen, and for much less money. So we have to be really good stewards of money. So I made the decision that we were going to move forward with a single incorporation, which means we are just going to bring in the affiliates over the next year. And we're going to have to substantially cut down on the costs that we spend, because of course, you know, we're responsible, we have to be fiscally responsible, because people give us their hard earned money. And they want it to make sure that it goes towards as much mission and research and community health as possible. So we're in the process of doing that. Right. So now you'll have one Komen, which most people never knew that it was an affiliate model to begin with. But what that also does is it helps us have mission delivery that is consistent throughout the whole organization. And you know, we are big on community. But you have to understand, does community mean that you live within the boundaries of Tulsa, Oklahoma? Or does community mean that you are part of a breast cancer community or people that care about breast cancer? And how do we scale and for us, scaling is also using technology. A big part of the Komen push over the last two years has been introducing more technology into our world. One of the things that we're doing right now is building an app. It's a patient navigation app. And what that does is it's sort of a two-way conversation with someone who is a patient navigator, who will help you through your journey. And I can tell you, as a breast cancer survivor, someone who was diagnosed with breast cancer, I had 14 different doctors, which is not unusual during the course of treatment, over a number of years. But I had one patient navigator. And I can tell you her name was Susan, I can tell you what she looked like. She is emblazoned in my mind. She had short dark hair, she was wearing a, you know, a flowered shirt. And she helped me make those decisions. So if we can provide Susans for people, whether they're in the rural Alabama, or whether they are in New York City or LA, we are providing an amazing service. So that is, you know, the way that you can define community as well. As being able to have community at scale. And it may not be that through just the single offices or physical spaces that people can go to because no one's going anywhere right now. Right. So you have to be able to reach our patient community, because we all are all about patients. And I think that that's a really incredible opportunity for us going forward. And we're also doing our—a Komen lead—our first Komen-led research project where we're creating a patient registry. Getting women who have had breast cancer, to give us their genetic and genomic information for us to do a research project that is open to the top scientists in the world and not limited to a single institution, like a hospital or a educational institution. So I think we might be able to crack the code of why breast cancer metastasizes, and what happens. So, you know, really excited about the work we're doing very different than Komen a few years ago, which was also very viable, but you know, you got to evolve. And especially now. We're evolving at a faster pace than we ever have before.

Alan Fleischmann 

And are you evolving now, Susan G. Komen. I guess it sounds like that was something needed to be done before. Are you accelerating even quicker because of the demands and this transformation that's going on during this pandemic, where just you have to have partners, you have to do differently, you've got to be in the community in a different way than you had before? And then the role of technology as you pointed out.

Paula Schneider 

Yeah, I would say we probably made in the last 90 days more decisions that had been made in the in the last 10 years. You know, and it's because if you look at it, okay, we have to have different types of partnerships that are transformational, and will help us along our journey and not necessarily just transactional, though. We're always happy to have transactional as well. Because you know, when people ask me what will cure cancer I always say the same thing cash. Cash cures cancer, because that helps us with research, it helps us with our communities. That's what cures cancer. But research is the only thing that will cure cancer and it takes money. No money, no mission.

Alan Fleischmann  

And is government a partner with you on this? Or is it one of those things where, you know, you go and you do different research funding, government does different research funding? Or is it really, you know, we need to bring in, it's not enough to do public sector, we need private sector, we need philanthropic dollars as well, it needs to be all three.

Paula Schneider 

Yeah, you know, I would say we don't, we don't get any government money. So it isn't necessarily a partner. But what we do do is we lobby, and we have advocacy. We passed nine Komen-lead state bills in the last 12 months that help women get better health care, so that we don't have to spend our money that we make at Komen towards that. And it's just part of what is from a government side, but our advocacy side of it is a very big side of what we do.

Alan Fleischmann 

Got it. That's great. I mean, I guess, are we not going to see the kind of famous walks in the future? Are we going to see them? I mean, I guess one of the things I know so many people that enjoy the, you know, being out there in the community, or is it just gonna be we're gonna find ways in which we can actually bring the community together? And maybe it's a combination of that. Walks and other things that we might be able to do to show solidarity.

Paula Schneider 

Yeah, there's, you know, look, this is 90 days ago, no one really had much clue right. On March second, I was at our Los Angeles More Than Pink Walk. We had over 5000 people there, it was very celebratory. It was just the beginning of COVID people weren't quite sure what was happening. So it really is—they're amazingly wonderful events to go to it's you know, it fills your heart. Because the humanity that cares. Last year was the 20th anniversary of our Race for the Cure in Rome, Italy. It was—I went to it and it was pouring rain that day, it was cold outside, it was in May. And it was probably 50 degrees and raining and I thought oh crap, no one's going to show. 83,000 people. Okay, can you imagine how many would have shown if it was a warm, sunny day. And they all walked in the rain. It was awe inspiring, that that much humanity cares about Komen and cares about breast cancer and creates these communities. So yes, I hope that we will, in the future, when it's safe, be able to have walks and runs again, because it is part of community, right. And it depends on your definition of community. But that is definitely where we have, we bring metastatic patients together and survivors together with all of the families and the caregivers and people who just care. And the emotions that happen when you go to one of those is so incredible. So I would like very much to bring those back. But of course we can't do it until there's a safe time to do it. But Komen is going to be here. We're going to make it through. You know, there's charity dynamics, or Charity Navigator rather, has said—their publication says that, on average, 80% of the charitable organizations have three to four months of cash, right? Because no one expects—you give away all your money, right? So no one expected anything like this. We luckily have more cash in the bank than that. And we have the ability to still raise money, and we're doing it in different ways. So we will be here, and we will survive and we will thrive. We have to contract a little bit. But you know, that's every business and organization in the United States right now.

Alan Fleischmann 

You're listening to Leadership Matters on Sirius XM, I'm your host, Alan Fleischmann. I'm here with my good friend, the President and CEO of Susan G. Komen, the world's largest breast cancer organization, fighting a pretty important cause and dealing with a lot of the health disparities and inequities in the world. Or in this country, I should say, today. You know, you just talked about some of the big challenges, but one of the things I'm struck by is how much you have brought back partnership in a true sense. Everyone talks about partnerships. But you guys seem to be able to do that and you're creating opportunity for those who want to use their, you know, their, you know, their supply chains or their ecosystem in the private sector and elsewhere to work with Susan G. Komen in order to bring some big lobbies. So, tell us a little bit about those partnerships. And, and whether that's a big part of the future as you're looking at this new model of, you know, a community and actually creating that access and frankly, the, you know, the availability and awareness to what cure or what prevents metastatic cancer?

Paula Schneider 

Yeah, we have some really robust partnerships and partners that think big, which is really great because, you know, again, it's transformational versus just transactional. Of course, you have to do transactional in order to fund transformational. But I will say Walgreens, for instance, what we are doing with Walgreens is we are creating this patient registry, which is our the first Komen led research project. They gave us the initial funding for that. And that's to get women to give us their genomic and genetic information that I spoke earlier. But they're the ones that helped us get that launched, and it came out of ideating. What are the biggest challenges that we have in in breast cancer? And what can we do about them? And what is Komen uniquely able to do, because we're trust brokers, right? We people know that they can trust us, if they give us their information, we're only going to use it for the good of finding ways to stop breast cancer from ever happening again. And that's the goal. We also have a partnership with Walmart, where we are working with them in their clinics to have mammogram bands there. And so where women can come and get mammograms, so of course, that has stopped for the moment, and now it's going to start up again. And then if there are findings, we want to work with them through patient navigation to get them to the treatment that exists in their communities. So and while Walmart has also got fantastic leadership in their health division, that is, really big thinkers and disrupting the world of health care, and helping people along the way. So we're working very diligently along with them. So you know, those are, those are two of the big transformative partnerships and we have others. So we are working very diligently to move the needle. To do things that are really going to stop people from dying. And that's the goal. The other part is, you know, we have—there's a lot of organizations out in the world right now that are trying to figure out where do they play into the social injustice, and certainly the causes that are being, you know, discussed day in and day out right now. And it's, you know, if you wanted to partner with an organization like us, we have an infrastructure that allows us to work within the African American community, and you can really make a difference. And, you know, we can give data and information back to what we're doing and how we're doing it. And, you know, as part of our African American Health Equity initiative that we are working on, not just in the 11 cities, but helping black women throughout the country, every day, all day, in many of our cities. So there's ways for us to partner and we're really, really clever at ideating, you know, a partnership—coming from the for profit world and being caught making this wild left turn into the not for profit world, the philanthropy world, I think I think of things a little bit differently from a leadership standpoint, because, you know, you want to do something that is beneficial for both organizations, and finding that way for us to partner together that is transformational for both. And that's how we think about it as we are moving forward, is how do we empower other organizations or businesses to help us that is beneficial to both organizations.

Alan Fleischmann 

That's the secret I guess, for private sector right now is they need to show that they are community-minded, that they're part of the, you know, the solutions of the inequities in our community. You're hearing that over and over again, you know. If you're actually going to look at someone and, and see them as a consumer or customer, you better also be concerned about their lifestyle and their well being and their community that they live in. That's going to be a high standard that we're going to expect of all of our companies that we interact with. The fact that Walmart and Walgreens is partnering with you says a lot about those companies and understanding their responsibility to be in the community with you. You know, and I think that's a huge, maybe a huge change. Again, you're leading, just like you did with the disparities issue. It sounds like you're leading and that you're giving a vehicle, a platform for private sector to actually perform as their best selves. Yeah,

Paula Schneider 

Don't be symbolic, you know, because you give Juneteenth off to everybody doesn't, you know, doesn't necessarily help the cause. Right? And if we can figure out ways where we can actually save lives, it's much more meaningful.

Alan Fleischmann 

That's right. That's right. I think that's actually very inspiring. Are you hopeful? That—I guess I should ask you the thing that most people think about when they think about the fact that you've been in this you being at Susan G. Komen, you've been in this kind of fight for a long time. And I know that it's gotten better statistically, research has actually done a lot to actually prevent that along the way. So it's not, you know, all bleek, but it is, as you know, when you get that diagnosis, it's the most earth shattering thing in the world. Are you more optimistic that we can prevent more—we can actually mitigate quicker or, and even that there might be a cure around the corner. I know you're—you told me you're gonna find till we get a cure, I've hear you say that.

Paula Schneider 

Yeah, that means I might never retire. I will say that there's hopefulness—let me take that into two parts, right? I think COVID is going to have very, very detrimental effects on breast cancer because cancer isn't canceled. And now people are afraid, and they're afraid to go into their doctor's office, they're afraid to go get a mammogram. You've got to go now. You've got to start back up again, there was a moment there where we recommended, as did many of our scientific advisors to just hold off for a minute. It's been three months. The difference between a diagnosis getting it three months later, is can be the difference between an outcome of life or death. So you need to go especially if you have any kind of finding, or you feel something. So that is going to turn, not only not getting the treatment or not getting diagnosed, if you you know, are happen to be diagnosed, right? But it's also really most important is that you—we are now in a position where there are so many that are unemployed, and so many that do not have health insurance any longer. So this is going to put a very big damp in the progress that we're making. So on the one side, just the socio economics in the macro environment that's happening is going to absolutely cause more issues with breast cancer and every kind of cancer, one of our partners in Europe has said to us that in the UK, cancer diagnoses are down 70%, that just means that people aren't getting diagnosed, it doesn't mean that they're down 70%. Right, it just means that people are not going in. So that's what we have to contend with. On the flip side of that, I think that recently, we had an event at my house with with all of the—with about five of our scientific advisors, which are the rock stars in breast cancer. And I asked him each one question, what's the most exciting thing that they're working on, they each have three or four things that they are working on, that will change the complexion of breast cancer. And it's incredible, the science that is going on right now is absolutely incredible. But we got to keep the money going for research. Because if we don't, we won't have people that go into research, we won't have people that stay in research, we won't have people that are there to find the cures. So that is incredibly important for us to to support research projects that are out there and young investigators that are going to stay in this field. So I do believe that we are on the precipice. And prior to COVID, I would have been a lot more optimistic, I still am optimistic about the velocity of new drugs that are coming to market, new treatments that are coming to market. What I'm more concerned about is the human side of it, of people not being able to have health care, not being able to go get their mammograms, not being able to afford treatment if they do get a diagnosis, and they're unemployed. Because it's, you know, it's so dire right now. Which is also why we all advocate for some of these safety net programs that are through the government—to keep those in place. You know, because now we're fighting against being able, you know, trillions of dollars that are going out to help the American people, which of course, is great. But we still have to care about this subset of the American people that during a COVID or during an employment or during, you know, some dramatic event that's going on, get breast cancer. So, you know, there's a lot to consider. And it's going to be difficult for the next few years for sure.

Alan Fleischmann 

If you had a magic wand right now, if you know, again, we've got an amazing cadre of listeners on this show. People who want to do things, if you had a magic wand, talking to the individual, talking to businesses, talking to philanthropists, talking to CEOs and say, Okay, this is what I need from you, in order to bring you into our communities and help us advance despite all the challenges of our time right now coming out of the post pandemic, I hope soon. What would that magic wand be? And what would you want to tell those specific audiences?

Paula Schneider 

Engagement, engage with us. We'll figure out ways that we could partner together that will be be transformational for both organizations. We're very clever with that. You know, we do need help with advocacy, we do need help with research, we do need help with community, there's so many arms that we can go. We have Patient Centered services, you know, if you really want to help people, then help us help them because we are on the frontlines every single day. So if you think that you want to do something good for the world, and you think that you care about women and you know, most women care about breast cancer, then engage, you know, I'm really easy to reach.

Alan Fleischmann 

And you're very—I know you're very responsive as well.

Paula Schneider 

I'm pretty responsive. Believe me, any of you who want to call and talk to me, have at it. Because I will be more than happy to engage.

Alan Fleischmann 

Well that's one of the tthe great examples of your leadership is you've created and recreated Komen into a very nimble organization that's very responsive. I know that firsthand. I just want to make sure that people understand that there are so many lives that can be saved, and so much goodwill that can be done in a very tangible and real way. If they were to partner with you. The way you're talking about Walgreens, the way you're talking about Walmart, but you don't even have to be as big as they are.

Paula Schneider 

No.

Alan Fleischmann 

In order for you to help those health deserts actually flourish.

Paula Schneider 

Yeah, yeah. There's, you know, there's so many—most people don't know what Komen guts, right doesn't know all of the, they know that there's races and walks and you see people in pink, and you know, there's a lot of power and women in pink with pitchforks for sure. But if you knew what we did, where we're focused on. Innovative breakthrough research, direct patient support and advocacy, because in times of turmoil, you have to make sure that you stay focused as a leader and as a group. We can't do everything, but those are the three things that we are working on. And a lot of those have to do with also the the inequities of healthcare, right, because if you are talking about direct patient support and advocacy, and then there's always going to be breakthrough research. And we're in a very unique position right now of combining technology with research with our trust broker status that we have. You know, I'm going to use an analogy, we did a partnership a couple years ago with a yoga company and a mall company. And we asked women to do yoga, and we brought 850,000 women together on Mother's Day to do yoga. We had yoga across the country. There is no one that can convene like we can. And there's very few who have a sense of community, again, the word community, where people care, as much as they care about this type, about breast cancer and about the community that is going to find a cure, because it is scary. And there is not a day that goes by that wonders if I'm going to be one of the ones that get it back. Right. And so I fight every single day so that—my mom died of it. I had it, I have two daughters. Enough said, I'm going to figure out a way that we can make the difference. And this is, you know, it's for everyone's daughters—and men get it too, but to a much lesser degree.

Alan Fleischmann 

You know, as we think through I mean, it must be hard to run an organization with a mission being we want to cure cancer. I mean, and everyday knowing the daunting task before you. And then here you've got to deal with, you know, the challenges of going through a pandemic. How do you as the CEO, leading your employees right now? And how are you communicating with your employees right now? And is it easier because you're all so mission focussed? Is it more difficult because you're not able to be in the community? Or is it one of those answers that's all the above?

Paula Schneider 

I think it is all of the above. But you know, when you're asking about leadership, we're very definitive about how we what we are doing. Right. Because you can walk—we walked into—I came back after the the race walk in LA, and we went out on the 23rd. And we've never been back in the office again, right? So we're in a position where you have to make decisions, and our community work was going to be completely jeopardized. Made the decision to go and become a single incorporation, by the way, not altogether that popular with a lot of the affiliates. And you know, some totally get it, some totally don't. But it doesn't matter, because we have to make the decisions that are right for the organization. Now, we had to take down some of the staff count, certainly not something you want to do, but we had to do it. We had to, you know, we are we are working and making technology a bigger part of our platform, we are focused on three things, which are the research, the direct patient support and advocacy. So you have to be very deliberate in times of turmoil. And make the decisions, the bold decisions that you thought you wanted to make. You need to move and you need to move fast. You know, we're also working on all of the technical build outs that we're doing of, you know, perhaps putting those in separate IP because I think that they could be valuable to other organizations, or a separate new company, you know. So there's things that we're doing, and we're thinking about things differently than we ever had before. But we're moving and we're moving past and you make decisions, you get 70% of the way there now and you go because who knows, right? I walked into our board meeting on March 24th and said, I don't have a budget for you. That was the end of our fiscal year. I had a beautiful budget. It was perfect. We spent five months on it. And I threw it away about 15 minutes ago because it doesn't mean a thing. Give me eight weeks. Let me see what the trends are. Let's see what happens because no one knows where in unnavigated waters, and you got to bob and weave. But I will tell you as an organization, we have a small management team. We make a decision in the morning, by noon, we're enacting it. So, you know, I was talking to one of my big partners that was saying to me, yeah, well, you know how slow things go. And I go, no, no, I really don't. Because honestly, we move.

Alan Fleischmann 

Yeah. But you have to adapt. Have you come back with that budget?

Paula Schneider 

Yeah, yeah, we presented the budget at the last board meeting, which was in June. You know, we had literally 11 weeks between one to the other. And we created a full new budget. And it's based on as much fact as we know right now, but at least we have some trends. And we can understand, and you can't spend more than you're making. We're a philanthropy organization, we have to be great stewards of people's money. We, you know, if we can't afford people, if we can't afford rents, then we will not have it, we will work virtually, we will do things differently. You know, so if you think about changing from a single—or from an affiliate model to a single incorporation going completely virtual, introducing tech, redoing how we're delivering mission, redoing how we think about community, every aspect of our business in the way we're doing our business has changed. And we were already moving in this direction, but the the pedal hit the metal, and we are accelerating it at a pace that one hasn't experienced before here.

Alan Fleischmann 

If you are giving advice to other nonprofit—do people call you and actually say, you know, how are you doing it? I mean, how can we become like you? What can we can do better in the nonprofit world? When you're thinking about nonprofits now that you brought your private sector acumen to the nonprofit world, are there lessons learned that you would want to share with other, you know, fledgling, growing, even thriving, in some cases, just arriving organizations out there?

Paula Schneider 

Yeah, make your decisions, you already know what you wanted to do before this started, right, and just move. And it's not easy to change your whole entire organizational structure during a pandemic, right? It's not. Nothing is easy right now. But you can't just take the easy way out. And incrementalism right now will kill you. Because I am in a group of—I meet once a month with a virtual group of CEOs of other organizations. And you know, I think we all are trying to do our very best right, my way may not be the right way for everyone. But I think it's the right way for Komen. And I think that we have a kick ass management team that believes it. And, and those that don't, then, you know, there's there's other opportunities out there for you. Because we got to move.

Alan Fleischmann 

Is it hard finding employees?

Paula Schneider 

No. Quick answer.

Alan Fleischmann 

Because everyone's biggest complaint always is I can't find the talent.

Paula Schneider 

No, I think we have an amazingly talented team. And I've run you know, for profit organizations my whole life. I will tell you, this team just kills it. They're great. I had one of my board members who runs, you know, a fairly large organization, he called me up after the last board meeting and said, I gotta tell you, I am so jealous of your leadership teams. I went, Good, I'm glad. So it's, you know, it's taking your passion, right? If you're working for Susan G. Komen, it's because you care about the cause. Right? And it's taking—but in order—you can't just care about the cause, you actually have to have the skills as well, that gets you to where we need to be. Right. So you're taking passion, because you already have that. And then you're igniting it. And you're putting it into a strategy that everyone understands. You're staying within the lines of the, you know, the strategy, and you're working at a very fast pace. But I'm incredibly impressed with the team.

Alan Fleischmann 

You're listening to Leadership Matters on Sirius XM. I'm your host, Alan Fleischmann. I'm here with Paula Schneider, the president and CEO of Susan G. Komen. For the last few minutes we have together Paula, I'd love to go back to the personal a little bit. You mentioned earlier that you're the you know, you're the mom of two daughters. I know that's a big part of your life and your husband's life, who I get to know, Paula, as well. And raising two wonderful daughters. Is it easy? And how do you—what is the advice you're giving to them as they're embarking on their careers? And what advice to give to women in general, because I know from so many, you have become a big role model to women, not just to CEOs in general, which you are, but also the women who are looking for the role model of seeing a woman who's successful. And what are you telling, not only your daughters, but I guess the daughters, the daughters of this generation?

Paula Schneider 

Yeah, it's not a one size fits all right. I remember having a conversation with my daughter that when when she got into USC, and she didn't get in out od high school and then had to go to junior college, and she got a really good GPA and she got in and I remember having the conversation with her that, Congratulations, I'm really happy it happened this way for you. Because just because you got a really good GPA doesn't mean that you were guaranteed a slot. Right? And you know, so it's a combination of really hard work, and then there's some luck that goes along with your world and understanding what it is that you want to try and accomplish and what will make your life fulfilled. And women can be just as fulfilled if they stay home with their children or you know. So it's not for me, there's no dog in the hunt for me or my girls to say you should go out and become a big career woman if you want to. But if you do want to, you should. If you want to do a different take a different path, then you should do that. But I will also say that if you are going to be in the world, work hard, because it doesn't just come, you know, it doesn't—you have to be intuitive, you have to understand what value you bring to the organization, you should try and make sure that you understand what your boss's motivations are. So that you can align, because that's how you will, you will progress. And it's really—show up, right, and be there. Because, you know, I will say that there's a lot of young women and young men that I've given a lot of advice to over the years, that would like to understand how they're going to become very rich, very quick. And, you know, I'm like, yeah, let me know how that works for you. Because, you know, you really do have to put in the time and the effort and know that it's time and effort and you know, it's not going to be your first job, it's not necessarily your dream job. And you're going to bob and weave during the course of this and learn how to market yourself along the way. But make sure you're worth the marketing that you do.

Alan Fleischmann 

You know, we're living in an age right now, where people are talking about stakeholder capitalism, and how it has to really be not only the shareholder focus of your public company, but also the other stakeholders. We live in the age of ESG investing where, you know, we want to talk about the environment and social, societal benefits and in good governance. You know, in many ways, I look at—there's a blur now, in a good way, that you know, to be a good company, or a successful company, you have to be a good company. You have to actually do good in the community. Your social enterprise models are becoming very common in the private sector. And then you're looking with leadership like yourself, you know, that a nonprofit sector is being run by people who actually bring a business acumen that the bottom line and outcomes and, you know, and results. You know, it's king of a bit of a blur, where the nonprofit and the for profit have to be purposeful, jointly and have outcomes jointly. Are you seeing that as well? Is that becoming more of a natural trend? And does that make it so that if you're that young person, your daughter or friend or son, who's saying, Oh, what am I going to do in my career? That, you know, you can have a life of purpose by being in either the private sector or civil society sector?

Paula Schneider 

Yeah, as long as the—Well, clearly, if you're in the private sector, that used to be that the price of admission for it was you offered a good wage, and you offer good benefits, and that was that, you know. That's not the price of admission anymore. Now, it's up to corporate leaders to stand up and do something good, because they have that platform, and it's incumbent upon them to do it. And you will not retain employees unless you are doing something that is good for the world. So I'm really happy about that shift. And that's happened over time. Right? It certainly wasn't at the beginning of my career where anyone really gave a rat's ass that much. And now they should, and they do. But you know, I do think that if you're waiting for the government to to make a change here, you're going to be waiting a very long time. You have to be the change. And as leaders in any company, you have to stand up and figure out what is the right thing and how do I do it. In whatever way that is authentic to you and your organization. You know, but if women are important to you, or helping black women and social injustice is important to you, then there are certainly ways for us to partner and help you with that. And, you know, we'd like nothing more than to be able to do that, because that is our business model going forward, we aren't going to have races and walks as much until we can again, and but you know, it's transformative, and it's really quite engaging and really fun. You know, I love going to the meetings where we're talking about how we're bringing mutual benefits. Because, you know, I can see how it makes the world a better place. And people overall are happier when they're doing something that is for the greater good.

Alan Fleischmann 

A life of purpose. You know, It is so impressive. You're bringing technology to Susan G. Komen, you're bringing partnerships to Susan G. Komen, You're involved in the community, you're dealing with some of the most extraordinarily difficult inequities, you know, racial inequities, socio economic inequities, when it comes to health. And you're hitting them all head on. I just want to say how lucky I feel to call you my friend. And how lucky I think we all are that you're at the helm of the largest organization that's fighting, you know, fighting for a cure.

Paula Schneider 

And with an awesome team. Because you know, I wouldn't be bringing a lot of this if I didn't have the bench that is incredible.

Alan Fleischmann 

You can't be, I guess, a great leader unless you've got great people working with you.

Paula Schneider 

Yeah, they know a lot more about their delivery their areas than I will.

Alan Fleischmann 

And you know how to tap them and make sure that they actually execute. So I just want to say thank you, because I think—You know, you came to these issues, you've accelerated these issues well before the, you know, some of these tragic circumstances that we've been dealing with the last few weeks, both from the health side, from an economic side. And now from a social justice side. Around the inequalities and inequities in our country, you have been dealing with them head on, and you've been doing it for a few years. So I hope people are listening. I hope that one of the outcomes of this interview is that people see how open you are to partnership. And that, you know, and that those who are looking to lead understand that to be a leader like Paula Schneider, you just have to get going, pull together the right team, figure out your purpose, and get into action. And I just want to say thank you for joining us here at Leadership Matters today. And let's make a point to come back to this conversation again. And let's spotlight the things that you're doing post-pandemic when we can be in person, and really, really help you forge partnerships as we go forward. Thank you.

Paula Schneider 

Thanks, Alan. It's a pleasure chatting and always lovely to see you.

Alan Fleischmann 

I love it too. Talk to you soon. Thanks so much Paula.