Shellye Archambeau

Silicon Valley leader, board member for Verizon, Nordstrom, Roper Technologies and Okta

“When somebody actually offers you a job, when they invite you into the room…you're thinking, oh my god, I'm not ready, I can't really do it, I'm not going to be good enough. Remember, they would only ask you if they believed you could do it. So, if you don't believe yourself, believe them.”

Summary

In this episode of Leadership Matters, Alan and his good friend Shellye Archambeau discuss what makes someone a successful leader, including having confidence but not arrogance, and acting with intention.

They discuss how Shellye grew up with three siblings all close in age, leading to her competitiveness and want to win. As a child, Shellye moved to a suburb of Los Angeles where she was the only Black girl in her grade. The adversity she faced taught her that life is not fair, and that she had to be intentional, “figure out what it is [she] wanted, and then put a plan in place to go get it and then go get it.” At sixteen years old, Shellye decided she wanted to be a CEO, and followed that plan to become a business leader, tech pioneer, and one of the first female African American CEOs in Silicon Valley.

Mentions & Resources in this Episode

• Unapologetically Ambitious: Take Risks, Break Barriers, and Create Success on Your Own Terms – Click here to learn more and purchase Shellye Archambeau’s book.

Guest Bio

Ms. Archambeau is an experienced CEO and Board Director with a track record of accomplishments building brands, high performance teams, and organizations. She currently serves on the boards of Verizon [NYSE:VZ], Nordstrom [NYSE: JWN], Roper Technologies [NYSE: ROP], and Okta [NASDAQ: OKTA]. She is also a strategic advisor to Forbes Ignite and to the President of Arizona State University, and serves on the boards of two national nonprofits, Catalyst and Braven.

She is the former CEO of MetricStream, a Silicon Valley-based, governance, risk, and compliance software company that enables corporations to improve their business operations through better risk management across the enterprise. Ms. Archambeau built the company into a global market leader with over 1,200 employees serving customers around the world. Under her leadership MetricStream was recognized for growth and innovation over the years and was named in the top 10 of the “Deloitte Technology Fast 50” and named a global leader in GRC by leading independent analyst firms for 9 consecutive years.

Follow Shellye on LinkedIn, Instagram, and Twitter @ShelArchambeau.

Clips from This Episode

• On the pressures she's experienced as a female, African American, tech pioneer

• “Courage is like a muscle! You can develop it!”

• On what the title of her book, "Unapologetically Ambitious" means...for everyone

Episode Transcription

Alan Fleischmann 

You're listening to Leadership Matters on Sirius XM. I'm your host, Alan Fleischmann. And I'm here with Shellye Archambeau, a very good friend. We are going to be talking about her wisdom, her thinking about leadership, but also the journey in life in both professional and personal. There's probably nobody better. I also am going to urge everybody to read her book. It's called Apologetically Ambitious, and future outlook. And it really is a great book. But let me tell you a little bit about Shellye. She's a business leader, a tech pioneer, who was one of the first female African American CEOs in Silicon Valley. Shellye started her career at IBM, before eventually becoming the CEO of a struggling startup, which is now MetricStream. A leader in governance risk and compliance software solutions. Under Shellye's guidance, MetricStream enjoyed explosive growth, expanding from fewer than 50 employees to more than 1200. Her leadership is the focus of a Harvard Business School case study called Becoming a CEO. Shellye stepped down from MetricStream in 2018 and is now on the boards of Verizon and Nordstrom, as well as the tech companies, Roper Technologies and Okta. And Shelley has been busy writing, as I said, and just last month, she published a book that I really am looking forward to discussing with you all today. Again, it's called Unapologetically Ambitious: Take Risks, Break Barriers, and Create Success on Your Own Terms. Shellye, welcome to Leadership Matters. I am so excited that you're joining. You're a dear friend, and you're someone that every time I see you speak, and every time people hear you, they walk away, where they rethink their lives, and either is very reaffirming and keeps them going on their journey, with new questions and new thoughts, or I've heard people who have heard you speak who said, You know what, it's time for me to look at life differently. You got an amazing confidence, but there's not an arrogant bone in your body. So we're gonna figure out how we can actually help translate some of the wisdom that you have with our listeners today. And I thought it would be great to start with your early years to kind of get a little bit of a sense of who have the biggest influence in your life. But before I do, just say, welcome, and thank you for joining.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Oh, well, thanks so much for having me, Alan, I've really been looking forward to this.

Alan Fleischmann 

Yeah, we're thrilled. And I think there's so much to talk about. Our biggest challenge will be doing it in an hour.  You know, when I think of you, I do think of someone who is confident, but not arrogant. And I know, I know you well, that you know, you've overcome extraordinary obstacles and adversity in your life, both personally and professionally. And you built an incredible family and an extraordinary career. And I always think—it always had to start somewhere, you know, and I know enough to know that the values that shaped your life probably started as a child. I'm curious what you were like, how competitive were you? Was that encouraged or discouraged? Where did it all come from? I guess is the first question I'd love to ask.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Yeah Yeah, sure. So you know, what made Shellye, Shellye. So it absolutely started from early days. My parents were crazy in that they had four children in less than five years. So and as a result, we grew up very close, but frankly, super competitive. And that just was definitely fostered by my family. I mean, our family activity for having fun, etc, was frankly, playing games. And it was all about winning. And whether your card games, board games, you know, whatever it is. So yes, I grew up in an environment that was definitely competitive and definitely fed that competitive nature for sure.

Alan Fleischmann 

But how many kids? I mean, you said four kids, but how many? How many? Where were you in that lineup?

Shellye Archambaeu 

I'm the eldest. So I'm the eldest. Two sisters, and then a baby brother.

Alan Fleischmann 

Nice. Nice. Yeah. And then your parents. Tell us a little about your parents a little bit.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Yeah. So my my parents they both were raised primarily in Washington, DC. That's where I was born. When they got married. And Dad didn't have a college degree but was also ambitious. You know, he was definitely focused on making a life for his family. My mother did have a college degree, but she was a stay at home mom. And so she had the kids, dad worked, you know, and my father used to call my mother the magician, because he brought home his little bit of money and she turned it into a life. So they were really a great team. Inside, you know, inside the family, loving, supportive, competitive nurturing, absolutely. Outside of the family? Well, it was the 1960s when I was in elementary school. And that was a time where everybody was mad about something. Right. I mean, you had Vietnam war going on, you had women's rights issues, you had civil rights issues. You had—there's so much going on in the 60s. And for as many people that wanted civil rights, you had just as many that, frankly, didn't. And my family, right in the midst of all this, as I'm a six years old, going on seven in first grade, we move from Philadelphia, to a suburb of Los Angeles. And this suburb was super homogenous, I was the only black girl in my class, not only in the class, but frankly, in my grade. And not only in my grade, but I think in the school, I mean, it was—and people let me know, frankly, in no uncertain terms that I really wasn't wanted, and they didn't think much of me. So all that taught me that the odds just weren't in my favor to get what I wanted out of life. So that I knew if I just did what everybody else did that I wasn't going to get much. So between being competitive, knowing the odds aren't in my favor. And then my parents reinforcing the points that life isn't fair. You know, you come home as a kid, things would happen, you know, you deserve something, you didn't get it or somebody treated you badly or knocked you down, whatever it might be, you come home and you'd say, this happened. It's not fair. And my mother would just look at me and say, You're right. Life isn't fair. What? Right. Its not fair.

Alan Fleischmann 

What did you say? How did that feel? Because you were like, make it fair, Mom.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Exactly, exactly. Because should be fair, right? As a kid, you know, it should be fair, you get this, I get this, it's fair. And she—no, no. Life's not fair. So you have to figure out what you're going to do about it. But it's not there. So don't go looking for it. Don't expect to find it. It's not fair. And that really set the stage for me, Alan, all of those things together. It taught me that I needed to do things differently. And what I learned to do was to be intentional, was to try to figure out what it is I wanted, and then put a plan in place to go get it and then go get it. I couldn't wait for others to give it to me. Right? Or for it just to happen. So that really structured and set up my whole outlook on life of one of being intentional setting goals and putting plans in place.

Alan Fleischmann 

Did your—did your siblings react similarly? I'm thinking about the oldest kid.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Oh, I know. Exactly. Exactly. So I will tell you. We are all you know, competitive. For sure. In our ways, and everybody, you know, everybody has done has done well. We're all—definitely very different. You know, we're four different people. But everyone has has a life that they want.

Alan Fleischmann 

I love that. I love that. Did—how early were you? Did you realize a had competitive spirit? You know, meant I gotta get out there. I mean, were you shy? Were you? Did you say okay, I've got a purpose early on. And I'm going to jump in? And I'm sure that was encouraged. But was that?

Shellye Archambaeu 

Oh, absolutely. It was—

Alan Fleischmann 

You were athletic too, if I recall. You were a great athlete as a young kid.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Yeah. Especially into horses and things like that. And then tried to play sports and problems with my knees and the whole bit. But I will you know, I'll tell you, Alan, when it comes to kind of just the outlook on on life and being able to kind of set goals and be competitive and all those things, it was all the way it was all the way through. Because I was I was a shy, gangly black girl. That's how I described myself. You know, I was watching—I was very observant, because I never knew how people were going to treat me right or what they were going to do. So I was always very cautious. But at the same time, I just—I just wanted people to like me and respect me. And so I tried to work hard. You know, I was a good student, because you'd get positive accolades. Right? When you were—when you are good, and you worked hard. But all those things were part of what what made me. And because it was so challenging for me, it also made me somebody—it made me somebody that wanted to make sure that I also helped others as I went along. So I know—I knew what it was like, right, to struggle and to have those challenges.

Alan Fleischmann 

And early on, I guess because you were isolated. You knew what it felt like to feel alone at times, even though you were part of a bigger community.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Yes, yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

Alan Fleischmann 

I imagine, I mean, so you know, when I think of you I think of you as being one of the most organized people I know. You love your to do list. You get things done. Promises made promises kept. You know, super disciplined about, you know, when you set out a goal, you get there. I also think of you being a great entrepreneur, they don't always work together. Because the entrepreneurs often can be the crazy kind of absent-minded professor. The person who has a brilliant idea. I mean, the creative, genius side. You got that left brain, right brain thing going? Did one come before the other, I mean, and have you intentionally kept room for the other? And as a kid, did you see that you were entrepreneurial?

Shellye Archambaeu 

You know, it's interesting. I don't know that I saw it as entrepreneurial. Mainly because I grew up in all over the place, but mainly East Coast as I got into my, you know, Junior High in high school years. And I wasn't exposed much to entrepreneurs. You know, the companies when I was growing up, were all big companies. So this whole notion of entrepreneurism, that part I really didn't understand early on. But in terms of what it was called. With that said, You know, I, I loved clubs and organizations and pulling people together and doing things, right. And so I would tell you all my involvement in all these different organizations, whether it was the American Field Service, or French club, you know, whatever it is, if we pick something to go do, and then we figure out how to go make it happen. I mean, that's entrepreneurial. So I absolutely had it in me, I just didn't really know much about it until I got going with my career.

Alan Fleischmann 

I've always thought that there are two types of people in the entrepreneurial world. Those who are the entrepreneur, and those who are entrepreneurial who work with the entrepreneur. You obviously have both, you know, you can be like, catalytic entrepreneurial also are the catalytic entrepreneur person. So it sounds like it and then, at some point, you realize you can lead on the one hand and still build, you know, and help build. Which probably is a good thing for people to realize early on in their careers too, right? That you can be happy being one or the other. It's rare when you're both.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Yeah, I know. It's interesting. I didn't realize—I didn't realize the rarity, if you will, of that. But you're absolutely right. Absolutely right. And I think a lot of it is also just what muscles you exercise. You know, I don't know, that has to be as rare as it is.

Alan Fleischmann 

Which is kind of the point, right? Now test yourself and figure it out. When you're talking to young people, you know, don't just isolate yourself in one lane. You went to high school, obviously, and you excel, and you were this athlete, and you were entrepreneurial. What made you decide to go to Wharton?

Shellye Archambaeu 

Oh, gosh, well, I decided that I wanted to be a CEO at like, 16.

Alan Fleischmann 

Where did that come from?

Shellye Archambaeu 

Well, I had this fateful conversation with my guidance counselor. And she asked me, you know, this is junior year, right? So in junior year, they ask you, okay, are you going to college? Or are you going to trade? Or what are you doing? So I want to go to college and get a job. What do you want to do? I said, I don't know. She said what do you like to do? Well, I talked about the clubs, right? Like pulling people together, getting clubs, going doing things. And she said, Well, Shellye, you know, business is just like clubs. You pull people together, get to accomplish something and get things done. And I'm like, Okay, that sounds like a club. I love running clubs, I'll go run a business, I looked up and the people who run businesses are called CEOs. So I said, done. I want to become a CEO.

Alan Fleischmann 

I love that you knew because I wouldn't think most kids your age would know what a CEO was, let alone think about—unless you're exposed. That's amazing.

Shellye Archambaeu 

I knew I had to go look, I'm like, who runs companies? Right? So I had to go look. But it was—it was really funny. And people said, Well, how did you know that was really it? And the honest answer is I didn't, I literally just picked it. You know, I tell people all the time, if you're not sure what you want to do, then pick something. At least you're heading in a direction. And if you figure out that that's not what you want to do, at least you've developed skills, develop experienced, develop—all that you can leverage. If you just kind of wait, vacillating back and forth, you're not moving forward.

Alan Fleischmann 

Waiting for somebody to come to you on a silver platter and rather than actually go out there and test it.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Right. Right.

Alan Fleischmann 

And then Wharton came, and then you just new you wanted to go into business.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Well, yeah, okay, so here's the deal. Alright. So I said, All right, I want to be CEO. And so now that became my goal. So the question I was asking myself is, okay, well, what has to be true for me to become CEO? Well, when you do the research, which is doing your homework, which I do forever, right, getting prepared. I know you're big on that too. Well, I looked around so who are CEOs? Well, I'm not finding CEOs that look like me. So again, not in my favor. Okay. So I've got to make sure I have the best credentials possible. Becasue otherwise people aren't going to take me seriously. So I did the research. Wharton undergrad was the best undergraduate business school in the country. And I said, all right, that's where I'm going. And literally, it was the only school I applied to. I was like, at the bottom of the application, I wrote: Please take me, I don't want to go anywhere else. I haven't applied anywhere else. This is part of my plan.

Alan Fleischmann 

And you must have been a great student.  Are your family and your, you know, your teachers as much as you were—they probably thought you were crazy, a little bit, because you were so focused, but—

Shellye Archambaeu 

I was. Yeah, they did. But the answer's yes, I was a good student. I mean, yes, I had good grades and good scores. So that was not like far—fetched. Now, certainly not a slam dunk. We know how.

Alan Fleischmann 

You didn't have a plan B.

Shellye Archambaeu 

But well, I did the plan B was—I applied early enough that I figured, okay, if I didn't get in, then I did have a plan B of where I would apply.

Alan Fleischmann 

You had a window where you could apply?  Yeah, but that was not the plan.And was Wharton everything you thought it would be?

Shellye Archambaeu 

You know, it was. Although—it was even it was even more. I mean, you don't realize when you go off to one of these schools, and I'm sure other people who were good students, like me felt the same thing. We're all of a sudden, going to a school where I mean, that was always in the top of the three 4%. I mean, at the top, and all of a sudden, well, everybody was. So now when you grade on a curve, you're like, average at best. Oh my god, right. So that whole notion of grading on a curve, and the competitive nature—it was super competitive at Whartob. Very, very competitive. A lot more back then. A lot more men than women. I can think of, I don't know, maybe five, maybe, black females out of a class of about 500. I mean, they're just so it was—yeah, it was interesting.

Alan Fleischmann 

And did you become friends with the five females that were interested in business—the blcak females students?

Shellye Archambaeu 

Exactly, I was gonna say, yeah, black women. There were other other black men. I'd have to go and see how—exactly how many. I don't remember who. But yes, we definitely knew each other. I mean, I actually became president of Black Wharton, at one point. So we had a Black Wharton group, to be able to pull people together from the different classes and stuff. But it was, but it was overall, it was a it was a good experience. But I worked. I mean, I was working all the way through Wharton sophomore through senior year, I was working 20 hours a week at IBM while I was going to school.

Alan Fleischmann 

Well, that was my question. How did you get to IBM? Because that was your dream place to go to right. That happened while you were there?

Shellye Archambaeu 

Yeah, it did. So what happened is, I got—I got an opportunity between my senior year in high school and freshman year in college, to work at an IBM office where literally, I subbed for secretaries going on vacation, It was a summer job. Right? And they were called secretaries back then. So secretaries would go on on vacation, and I'd watch their desk, right? While they were gone. Answer the phones, take messages, do whatever. Well, the woman who was my manager said to me, you know, introductions the whole bit, she goes Oh, you're going off to Wharton? And I said, Yes, I'm going to Wharton. And she says What do you want to do? I said, I want to be CEO. She said, Okay, my, your're ambicious, right. I was like, Okay. And she said, Well, you know, while you're here, you got to talk to people, because they're a lot of people do different jobs. Right. And they'd be happy to talk to you. And I was like, okay, but I probably took it a step farther than she expected. Because now I'm sitting at desks of executives, because they're the ones that have secretaries, right? And I had the corporate directory. And so literally, I would just flip through and say, oh, Senior Vice President of supply chain management. I wonder what they do. Right, Vice President of international—I wonder what they do. But I mean, I literally just called people up. Hello. I'm Shellye Archambeau and I'm here for the summer. I'm going to Wharton in the fall. I'm calling to find out what you do. I mean, I had this whole spiel. But you know what? Most people talked to me. Some people would even invite me to come have coffee or something, you know, now as a, as a more experienced person, I realized just how probably a combination of cute and audacious, you know that that was but it did help me get some different perspectives. But one of those people that I chatted with, actually connected me with an IBM branch in Philadelphia because I was going off to Wharton, and then I applied so that I ultimately—the summer—Yeah, I started the summer between my freshman and sophomore year. I got a summer job working at that location, and then I parlayed that into a part time job while I was in school. And then I just kept doing that all the way through graduation.

Alan Fleischmann 

Did you love the job? Or is it was a more like this was an essential thing, or did you actually love the job?

Shellye Archambaeu 

No, you know, I absolutely enjoyed the job. I mean, were things about it that were hard and tough? The answer is absolutely, but no, overall I definitely I enjoyed the job. I enjoyed the people. I just, I just enjoyed getting started. You know. When I say getting started being in a professional environment and actually learning and trying to absorb, right, all that was—all that was out there.

Alan Fleischmann 

You were unapologetically ambitious. And you weren't afraid to tell people your goal was to be CEO?

Shellye Archambaeu 

Well, no, it's funny. In the early days, the answer is no. I would totally tell them. And I think I was still young enough where that was like, Okay. You know, I'd get the—depending on who it was, you'd get that, Oh, that's cute, right, kind of thing. But I did learn, you know, especially as I got—call it more my senior year, and whenever I did learn not to tell people that because I would get the funny look, right, the funny look. And I said, fine. So instead of telling him I wanted to be CEO, I just pick a job that was on the path. And that's what I ended up doing for the rest of my career was basically just pick a job a few levels above a few levels above each time, as I'm still working my way towards CEO.

Alan Fleischmann 

That's very smart, because then people then feel that they can cheer you on. They see you're all in, but they don't feel threatened by you, or they don't think you're only looking at the destination, but not the journey. Obviously, you shouldn't be worried and knowing you, you weren't climbing the second you came in that internship. Did you know that in your senior year in Wharton, that you wanted to stay at IBM and go full time?

Shellye Archambaeu 

Yeah, you know, I interviewed at a few companies, but ultimately decided IBM was the best. I wanted to be in tech. And I said, All right, well, at the end of the day, back then IBM was like the Google or Apple or whatever of its day, it was the leader in tech. So, great. I managed to join the leader. So I said, I'll join IBM and become CEO of IBM.

Alan Fleischmann 

And why tech?

Shellye Archambaeu 

Tech, because I'd heard along the way, you know, I'm a really good listener. So people, it's amazing how much advice we can capture if we just listen hard. I don't even know where I got it. But along the way, I remember hearing that if you pick industries for your career that are growing, then industries that are growing, have companies that are growing. And companies that are growing, never have enough resources, and therefore if you're good at what you do, you'll get more responsibility faster. Well, that sounded right up my alley. So that's why I picked tech.

Alan Fleischmann 

That's very cool. And then, and you didn't think you go to the west coast at that point. That was technically.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Like I said, the whole, right, the whole entrepreneur thing really wasn't there. I was still thinking in terms of, you know, big, big company and that overall dynamic.

Alan Fleischmann 

What was your first job at IBM when you were done? You're now graduate from Wharton, your're full time. What was your first job?

Shellye Archambaeu 

Sales. And I have to tell you, people thought I was crazy. You know, so often in my life, people—I did things that people didn't think I should do, but this whole sales thing, absolutely that. People were—my peers were going off to be International Finance, you know, analysts, they were going to be investment bankers, or P&G product managers are always sexy, right, kind of jobs. And surely, you're going to go sell computers? What?Right? What with a Wharton degree. What? But I'd done my research, Alan, and every single CEO at IBM started out in sales. So I said, all right, that has to be the path, right? Find the current to power and get in the current. And I'm like, sales must be it. So I didn't start out in sales, because I loved sales. You know, which is why I think it's such a travesty when people tell young people. Do what you love. I'm like, how do you know what you love, though? Do what's gonna build skills so that you can then do what you love when you figure it out. So

Alan Fleischmann 

That is the most important advice, especially to millennials or younger, is, don't look to do what you love, look to do what, you know, the things that actually will embolden you and strengthen you so you can eventually discover what you love and do that. That's something that's lost sometimes too much. Yes, often.

Shellye Archambaeu 

It is. It is. Yeah, absolutely.

Alan Fleischmann 

And I think you understood sales, you understood the bottom line. You understood what they needed. You were the revenue generator, you were the one that actually—the essential worker, if you will, so you can speak the language of IBM and you also are able to talk about IBM externally.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Yeah, absolutely. But I'll tell you, the biggest advantage I got from starting out in sales, all those things you said were true. But the biggest advantage was the skill sets you learn in order to be a successful salesperson, are skill sets that you need for the rest of your career. Why? Because you learn how to ask for what you want. You learn that getting a no is actually a good thing, not a bad thing. You learn that, you know, getting a no does not mean no, it just means not now. You learn how to qualify. Right? You learn how to negotiate. You learn how to—I mean, there's just so many things. You learn to have thicker skin. Right? You learn—there's just so many things you learn in sales. I tell people all the time, I still think it's the best job. I think everybody should have a job in sales at some point. Because of all of the other skills you're gaining.

Alan Fleischmann 

You know, also you get to learn and you're so brilliant at that—is you learn to communicate with people through their mind, through their thinking, their mindset, their points of view, and you can overcome the differences because you're actually approaching it, where you're bringing, you know, their voice to you rather than your voice to them. And that you learn in sales. And your're brilliant actually in bringing people together because you understand how to communicate, obviously, at a very sophisticated level but you know, bringing people together means you have to actually understand how they think what they see. That sales, you can't sell something unless you actually can capture that.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Absolutely right.

Alan Fleischmann 

That's so cool. That's your goal. Well, you wanted an executive track soon into that? Did you excel at sales, where they said, Wow, Shellye is someone we got to really move into a certain track or did that come later?

Shellye Archambaeu 

Actually I was. I was good at what I did. So yes, I got moved around. I got put into the high potential group, I mean, all those things for sure. And I, you know, had a good career, Alan. I spent—I was with IBM for about 14 years, rising through—rising through the ranks. I had, man, I don't even know if I had to count it, how many jobs I actually had. I probably had like eight jobs in those—in that period of time. And ultimately became a vice president and general manager running a division over in Asia Pacific. Multibillion dollar division. My boss reported to Lou Gerstner, the CEO. There wasn't anyone higher than me that looked like me. So I, I did well, I did well. However, it just wasn't clear to me that I was going to become CEO.

Alan Fleischmann 

You got this, you got this signal that it wasn't happening. And then what did that do when you realized that there was—that you weren't—you were actually, you were—we went to—there's a great story in your book about you going to Tokyo. And that and that, then move overseas, obviously, what you learn from a leadership role in a very different culture as well. Was that around the time when you learned you wouldn't be CEO? Or is that still a time when you were applying?

Shellye Archambaeu 

Yeah, it was exactly—I was over into—it was over in Asia when I realized that. So yes, it was during the course of having—of having that job and taking those roles.

Alan Fleischmann 

Wow. And tell me what that did for you. What you know—and then you went from there. When you hear the new Blockbuster today. We think, you know, cautionary tale of tech disruption. But you were lured away. Right? You went from IBM, to Blockbuster? I mean, I mean, Blockbuster was at its prime.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Oh, absolutely. They were behemoth when I went. I mean, this was the late 90s. And I mean, there was a Blockbuster store on—I would say within three miles of like, 75% of Americans. I mean, it was that amazing. And they wanted to build out a blockbuster.com. Right? Start building the—paving the way for the future of movies being you know, delivered—digitally, and all those kinds of things. And I thought, Oh, this is a perfect job to take coming from IBM, because I wanted—I decided I wanted to be CEO, but I've done large. So let me go build something. But again, research and homework told me a lot of people who leave big companies and go to smaller ones, you know, to build and grow, stumble a time or two because it's so different. Well, frankly, as a black female, I don't think I have as many strikes at bat, so I'm always working on how do I improve my odds? So I said, let me go get a seat at the table jobs, you know, a job or two and then go after my CEO job. So I thought Blockbuster was a perfect transition. Big company, yes. But I was creating a brand new division. So it's like a startup, right, within that overall umbrella. And it was in a cool space. I was leveraging my technology, getting into kind of the internet and entertainment, etc. So anyway, so yes, so I joined Blockbuster, and launched the very first Blockbuster.com.

Alan Fleischmann 

How long were you there?

Shellye Archambaeu 

A year and a day. And it was a shame. You know, I had moved my whole family from Tokyo to Dallas. But initially, you know, started going strong. But then it became apparent that Blockbuster really didn't get it and see where the future was going. You know, Reed Hastings and I had a chance to meet a couple times at different industry conferences, things that are happening. And he and members—couple members of his team, came out to Blockbuster and pitched basically, let's take Blockbuster.com, that brand, you know, Netflix, the technology because I'm trying to build technology. He's trying to create relationships, right with all these industry folks, put them together and go conquer the world.

Alan Fleischmann 

Kind of like the way IBM could have done with Microsoft before Microsoft. It could have been the Netflix of our time.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Yep, yep. Nope, for sure. So anyway, so it was after that that I said, Okay, this is not the place for me. I've got to figure out how to get myself to Silicon Valley.

Alan Fleischmann 

You knew you got to be there. You had to be there.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Yeah, at this time, that was clear. I'm like, Okay, I'm in tech. I need to go where tech, again, back to following the current. You know, current power is true both within an organization, but it's also true within an industry. And within the whole growing company industry, Silicon Valley, you know, especially in the late 90s, was the heart.

Alan Fleischmann 

And did you—were you recruited to MetricStream at that point? Or did you—did you seek out MetricStream?

Shellye Archambaeu 

Actually no, no, I was actually recruited—what took me to Silicon Valley was North Point. North Point was a telecommunications DSL, one of the first high speed internet access, you know, capabilities out there in the late 90s, that people all got to their homes and to businesses. So I was recruited there to be the chief marketing officer and EVP of sales. And they ended up going through some challenges and ultimately got bought by AT&T. And then I was pulled over to LoudCloud with Marc Andreessen and Ben Horowitz. And it was from there, I got hired by Kleiner Perkins and then coasted to be CEO of what became MetricStream.

Alan Fleischmann 

I want to hear about that. You're listening to Leadership Matters on Sirius XM. I'm your host, Alan Fleishmann. I'm here with Shellye Archambeau, who has written an amazing book called Unapologetically Ambitious, it's about her journey, both professionally and personal journey and how she really has taken the moment to actually put down on paper, some of the wisdom, some of the advice, and some of the insight that has really created what is one of the most extraordinary careers out of Silicon Valley. You went, Shellye, from there, then to MetricStream. So you were already there—so you were kind of—to the investor angle, they just said you should be—they obviously saw you as the talent to be that next CEO. There was the founder there, though, and you, which is also challenging, right. So it's like they realized that they needed somebody else to come in, whether it's the founder would remain.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Yeah, they had—exactly. They'de gone through a couple of challenges. They had initially two founders, one founder left, they had—the other founder was there, they brought in another professional CEO. But that hadn't quite worked. And so I was then coming in to try to fix the mess.

Alan Fleischmann 

Did you feel like you had the skills, the background, the experience to deal with the mess? Or did you feel like which we all do at different times in our career? Say yes, embrace it, and we'll figure it out when we get there.

Shellye Archambaeu 

So I felt I was ready to be a CEO.

Alan Fleischmann 

I lost you for one second, but you're back. You're good.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Okay. So I felt I was ready to be a CEO. And I even tested that, you know, checked with people to say, hey, do you think I've got the skills? Do I compete? The whole bit. And you know, the answers were yes. I said, Great. Now, did I feel I knew everything that would be, you know, super helpful to know about taking company —and fixing it? The answer's no. Don't wait until you feel good, right? So I joined, I joined—the predecessor was called Zaplet that we turned into MetricStream. And literally, it was a matter of, Okay, we got to figure out a brand new value proposition, we got to figure out a new team, got to put a different financial model together, got—I mean, it was a complete restart of a process. And, you know, people look and say, well, gosh, how did you do that? Well, the answer is, I didn't. We did. I mean, I hired and found great people. And we were able to get this company, not only to survive, because that was questionable initially, but frankly, to thrive. And it was it was a lot of hard work, it was a lot of fun. Learned a ton, I mean, had many sleepless nights. So it's all of those things. But I loved it.

Alan Fleischmann 

You really were a founder theb I mean, when you think about it, there was a pre existing company, but it was reborn. And I met—and it was a whole new team, new brand, new name, right. And a repurposed kind of focus. So really, you are. Do you consider yourself to be the founder—one of the founders.

Shellye Archambaeu 

You know, it's interesting, I never really describe myself as a founder because I said, Okay, I'm a professional hire. I have a lot of respect for people who actually start companies. Right? From absolutely nothing, right, a blank piece of paper and turn it into a company. So I don't want—I don't want to diminish what they do by calling myself a founder. So I don't consider myself a founder. I am somebody who can fix, who can shape, who build the go to market, I could do all those things. But I know I'm not the person with a blank sheet of paper necessarily to start, you know, building something from scratch by myself.

Alan Fleischmann 

And did you—did you imagine when you joined, and with your team, kind of co-created or recreated or repurposed?

Shellye Archambaeu 

It was recreated. I mean, over time, yeah, over time, there weren't any of the original, you know, employees left. And it wasn't an issue of the employees weren't good. They were I mean, they had attracted great talent. It's just that we completely changed the focus. It went from a company that was building technology to sell to IT departments, to a company that started—so is platform based to a company that was building applications for business. So just completely different skill sets, right? It requires of what of what's needed in the company itself.

Alan Fleischmann 

Did you imagine you'd be there as long as you were? Did you see yourself when you first went in as a CEO fixture? Or did you see it—because you actually became a CEO fixture who stayed?

Shellye Archambaeu 

Yeah.

Alan Fleischmann 

Yeah.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Yeah. No, I did. The answer's no, I mean, you don't CEOs usually don't stay in terms of that by link. So I didn't see that. I didn't necessarily have a time clock in my head, if you will. But we went through—we almost went through two real cycles. Because yes, it was fixing, restarting, surviving. And then it was the beginning of 2008, where we really started to thrive because we had been evangelizing a new market space that we call comprehensive compliance and risk. And suddenly, Gartner, the leading software industry analysts said, oh, there's a new category of software, and it's called governance risk and compliance and MetricStream as the leader. Yes, we go from evangelizing to suddenly, people are calling us, right. Phone's ringing. It's like, Great, so wonderful. Finally, right? After all this work, we are now on our way. So we invest in sales and marketing and people to implement, and we're gonna raise money in 2009 on this growth trajectory. Yes. And then fourth quarter of 2008 comes and everything just slammed—slams the door shut, right. And it's like, Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? All of this. And suddenly we go into 2009 with fumes, because we were investing to then, right, raise money based upon his growth trajectory. And we've done—definitely done that. And then all of a sudden, everything closed orders stopped. I mean, you're just like, Oh, my God. So it was then a whole 'nother, Okay, are we fighting or —? Right? And I'm like, I know, we have a solution that the market wants. And after all this effort, we're like, not folding. So it's talking to the team, you know, getting people to buy in to make the hard trade offs and choices that we were gonna have to make. And we fought it through and came out the other side again. So yes, it was 14 years, but I felt like it was like two steps, you know, it was two like, seven year stints.

Alan Fleischmann 

And how much of that did it—really when you think about the 16 year old who's said, I want to be a CEO one day, now you're CEO, where you have to both fix things, build, and then here we go, again, fixed again. Did dream of being a CEO, that you thought of as a kid have anything to do with the CEO role that you played later on? are there things about you did find?

Shellye Archambaeu 

You know, it's interesting, because I even think back into my head, it's like, okay, when I said, I want to be a CEO, what did I think that was? And I really just thought it was like leading clubs, it's like, okay, you know, It's you'd help decide what we do, right? Where we're going, all those kinds of things. So did I really have any idea of what being a CEO actually was? No. No, not at all. Not at all. And it's funny because people will tell, you know, along the way, they'll tell you, they'll say things like, Oh, it's lonely at the top. Right. There's a lot of pressure. You know, they'll tell you, it's hard. They'll tell you all these things. And conceptually and mentally and intellectually, Yep, you nodded your head, you said Got it. Got it. But it's not until you're actually in the—in the seat. And you go to bed thinking, Are we going to make payroll next week? That you understand what that pressure really means.

Alan Fleischmann 

Now, you're—when you realize how many families are dependent on you?

Shellye Archambaeu 

Exactly. Yes. I mean, the weight on your shoulders. And it's hard unless you've been in the seat, it's not something that you can just envision accurately. So yeah, no, being a CEO is tough and lonely. Yeah. It was like, Oh, yeah, there's no peers. For the first time in your career, when you become a CEO, you basically have no peers. And you have to be careful because if you start treating people important to you like peers, then you're playing favorites because you can't do that with everybody and that doesn't work. Well, everybody on the board, you report to them. So they're not your peers. So who do you let your hair down with? Right? Who do you go to? and say, Oh my god, right? Cuz every once in a while you have those oh my god moments, and you can't let the team see it. So yeah, it's, um, it's definitely, it's definitely different. But it was, you know, like I said, it was great, it was great to be able to do what ultimately I really liked doing, which is pulling people together to create something significant. And we were able to do that.

Alan Fleischmann 

Now, with all the pressure of being a CEO, and all the joy that comes from succeeding, which you did, how much additional pressure came from you being, you know, a, really a pioneer, in many ways, you know, you broke class ceilings, in many ways, in different ways too? Being a woman in tech, not many, certainly women in tech and CEO not many. And then be a black woman in tech, black women in general as CEO, you know, being black as the CEO, but then in tech, you just you—there are layers on top of this. Was that—and obviously, the journey you went on, I'm sure there were there are people who are cheering you on. There are many people who didn't cheer you on at all. But did you feel that was additional pressure? Like I had a, I'm proving it, I gotta prove my, my excellence even more, so?

Shellye Archambaeu 

Sure it was, you know, because I know, but I've known this all the way through no matter what role, unfortunately, I played, I knew that when I walked in the door for a new role, whether that was just a new management role, a new executive role, or the new CEO role, right? That people were gonna think that I got the job for reasons other than being competent and capable. Right, it is just the bias that's out there. So I know that. So therefore, yes, the pressure higher? The answer is yes. Not just for me to want to succeed and achieve my goals. But I also know because of the whole pattern matching notion, that when I fail, I feel like I fail for my whole community. Be that for women, be it for blacks, be it for whatever, right, so it's not just me. But it's everybody. Because if I'm the only one you've had this experience with, all of a sudden, that becomes the pattern match. So yes, there's definitely more—more pressure, I believe, that's placed on us swimmer roles like that, because we carry, whether we should or should not, but most of us carry the weight of all that we represent, when we're walking into some of these things.

Alan Fleischmann 

Is that one of the reasons why you ultimately decided—I want to write a book. Because I think you've said you did not plan on writing a book. You know, and you don't plan on running a series of books even now. Right? So this is your book.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Yeah, I was gonna say, being an author was never a goal of mine. So you're right, Alan. But I couldn't figure out a better way to share at scale. Because I've tried throughout my career to be accessible, you reach out to me, email, LinkedIn, tweet, whatever, I try to respond. And I've done that all the way through. But as I got more and more responsibility, I couldn't meet with everyone that wanted to meet and pick my brain, hear my story, you know, understand the keys to success. You know, whatever was. And it was—and it really bothered me, because I wanted to be able to share. And so I said, you know, when I get to phase two, I'm going to write down, I'm gonna write it down so I can share with others, because frankly, I want more people to be able to achieve their aspirations. And with all that I've done, I've experienced and learned a lot around how to improve your odds, to actually get what you want. And that's what I want to share with people because I want more people to reach their goals, more people to achieve the success that they define, you know. And that's why—that's why I wrote the book.

Alan Fleischmann 

And I love that when I heard you talk about the book and you know, you're not actually even suggesting everybody could, should, or would be a CEO. What you're saying is be a CEO of your journey. In other words, you know, you know, find your moments to express your best self and apply it, dive in, make it be part of your, you know, of your everything. But don't you know, don't don't look for the title, look for your ability to find your way right.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Yeah.

Alan Fleischmann 

Yeah.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Yeah. And I'm glad you raised this alley because you're right no people see this title Unapologetically Ambitious, right? And it's like okay, and you're, you know, ambitious. I'm going to be CEO, everybody get in back, you know, whatever it is. No, it's not really what that means. The whole unapologetically ambitious, is really about everyone deserves to be ambicious.

Alan Fleischmann 

You mentioned for example, your mom who was—she was unapologetically ambitious.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. And that's the whole thing, everybody. And to me, being ambitious just means that you have goals, that you have aspirations, that you have things that you want to accomplish or impact, right. So anything that you are just trying to do in the future? Well, that's an aspiration. That's a goal, right? That's an objective, which means you're ambitious, if you're trying to achieve something. So it doesn't matter how your ambition shows up, whether it's to be CEO, whether it's to be president of the PTA, whether it's to, you know, create a very innovative piece of artwork, right, whatever it is, that is your ambition. And that is absolutely fine. All I'm saying is, through the book, I share strategies and approaches on how to improve the odds that you can actually go do that. That's what I want.

Alan Fleischmann 

And own your lane.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Exactly. Yeah.

Alan Fleischmann 

And the message in your book, which I find amazing is, you know, it doesn't matter age. And when you read your book, you can read through so many lenses. I mean, I'm sure that there's certainly there are African American women who are going to read the book and say, I can—I now see a role model, I see someone I can actually take on. As a father of daughters, I wanted them to read your book at 13 and 16, and my 16 year old is reading it right now. You know, just to see, okay, you can do anything you set your mind up to do. And with humility, but you know, if I had sons, I'd make them read it. You know, and, frankly, I don't care whether you're even young, you know, read the book, and realize that you—as long as you're on this journey, you know, kind of master your lane. Own your way, you know, there's an opportunity to be your best self and apply it. And that's the ambition.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Exactly, yes, it's so true. And it's interesting, because originally, you know, I was told when you write the book, you have to have your audience in mind. And so my target audience initially was, I call it young professionals, right. So think of professionals in their 20s and 30s. Because between 25 and 35, most people make, you know, 80% of the major decisions in their lifetime, that will affect the entire trajectory of where they're going. So I want them to have it. But as it turns out, and one thing that surprised has surprised me, is, anyone that still has something they're trying to achieve, something that they're trying to do or impact, is actually finding value. In the book and reading it. I've gotten some amazing notes from men in their 50s, you know, to a woman who was actually pushing towards retirement, she said, You know what, it really helped me start thinking through, what is it I want in retirement, right? And how do I want to go get it? What I'm like, wow, okay. And so it's—Yes, I'm finding people across the board, because here's what I want to prevent. So many people wake up, and they're now—fill in the blank. They're in their late 30s, late 40s, late 50s. And they look around and think, gosh, I'm just not where I thought I would be. Well, that's what I want to help people prevent, by being intentional, right, by figuring out how to improve your odds, and, you know, taking hopefully, some of the tips and techniques and strategies that I share. Hopefully, you can avoid that.

Alan Fleischmann 

You know, I think, I think, you know, the idea also that it's never too late, is a pretty powerful thing as well. You know, the idea that, you know, you're never—it's never too late for you to, to recalibrate, rethink. I love also that there's a bit of you that says believe in serendipity, but plan, plan plan. You know, and the planning part, from reading your book and knowing you, is not to make it rigid. It's to allow yourself to be intentional. So that when the opportunity does strike or point to moments where you can actually speak up, you know that that's your moment. Right, to identify those moments.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Very true. Very true.

Alan Fleischmann 

Yeah. Though you—you didn't pick a certain audience, but if you had to pick a certain audience that you hope will be inspired by your book, who would it be—or audiences?

Shellye Archambaeu 

Yeah, those are, those are still young professionals. Those are the ones that I really want to get to. Young people in their 20s and 30s that are building out their careers.

Alan Fleischmann 

I love it. I love it. And if you had to like give advice right now, I mean, one of these I know. And you talked about in your book, you know, you had an amazing— you married you married the right guy too. I mean, you had a great partner in Scotty who himself was you know, a legendary figure on his own, honestly. You built a family with, you know, a beautiful family with your daughter and son. And you know, you  dealt with his illness and the struggles there. Now you're CEO, you've got a husband who has major health issues. And this is after years of him being there for you, where he was there to be your partner, to make sure you could raise the family together. So you can be unapologetically ambitious, and go on your journey. And at some point, now he needs you. But he didn't want you to step down and step out of this journey. He felt like, you know, this is—this would be reaffirming that everything you guys set out to do together was coming true, but you're not stepping off the label. You chose to anyway. And that whole idea of work balance is—I don't believe exists. I believe that, you know, their are ebbs and flows in life, I think it's a falsehood 2hen people say, Let me figure out my work life balance. It doesn't exist, you can have moments, my personal bias of intensity, and then moments of great recharging and reflection. But you managed to actually master that somewhat. And then you had to deal with some of the adversity again. I'd love you to talk about that for a few minutes.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Yes, sir. Certainly. And you're right, and you know, that I'm in your camp. I don't like the term work life balance at all, I think it was just created to make us all feel perpetually guilty. Because it's a ridiculous standard. So I've always believed in work life integration, which is basically—I'm one person, I have my personal priorities and my professional priorities. I put them together, and I reprioritize ruthlessly, and that's how do I figure out what's going to get done and what's not going to get done, or what I have to go get somebody else to go do. Scotty and I were very much a team, when it came to our shared vision for what we were trying to achieve together. And I viewed it absolutely as a partnership, you know, my secret about my success and achieving these different things, it was our success. And here he is, now. He gets diagnosed with a terminal cancer. And I have to tell you, it was one of the worst, worst weeks of my life, frankly, was when he first got diagnosed. And your mind is swirling, and what does all this mean and everything else. And, you know, I'm also a spiritual person. And I believe that no matter how awful something appears, somewhere embedded deep, there is a blessing, you just have to look hard for it sometimes. So I was really working on—What's the blessing with this diagnosis. And what I told my kids ultimately was, the blessing from daddy's illness is that we are going to live a better life. And the reason we're going to live a better life is we know that life is not to be taken for granted. We know right now, not to save things for the future, when the time is perfect to do things, but to do what's important now. And we're going to do that. And honestly, you know, Scotty initially, life expectancy was five years, he lived almost 10. And I believe a big part of that was because we agreed that we were going to live life first. And fight cancer second. Cancer was not going to be the driver of our lives. And so yes, he wouldn't let me step out. Because, you know, he believed and it was true that if I stepped out that our whole life was about cancer. And then if that was the case, you know, he said to me laying right there skin and bones, he's doing terrible. And I'm telling him, I think I need to step out because it's just too much. The doctors do this to that, and the other and I'm working and see, I just can't do it. And he looked at me and said, if you steo about, then what the hell am I fighting for?

Alan Fleischmann 

A tough one to take.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Yep.

Alan Fleischmann 

But you eventually did make the decision to do that, to spend the quality time with him as well. I mean, I mean, I guess at the end of the day, he felt—he was your partner, your best friend. The way you describe him in the book, what I know of him through you as well. And then see him in, you know, in the way you've raised your family. You know, his—he's still here. I mean, he—his—there was a clarity of voice in your lives that has left you and I just know that he challenged you because he believed in you. And I guess one of the great bits of advice I've heard you say is, you know, make sure you're with somebody who believes in your dreams.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Yeah.

Alan Fleischmann 

You know, and that their dreams become your dreams and vice versa.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Yeah, absolutely. I really do. I believe it's so important for a long term partnership, which is what I wanted. I wanted a long term marriage. It's really important to have a shared vision for the future. And most couples don't take the time to talk about that. But I think it's really important to have a shared vision of what the future looks like together.

Alan Fleischmann 

How do you overcome, Shellye, because one of the things that I think can be very overwhelming for people, no matter where you are in your career, is the fear of the unknown. And then if you have moments of adversity that you had inherently, just by being who you were—you were kind of a salmon swimming upstream. And then when you have moments of personal adversity and you really don't bring to the office, because, you know, everyone has something, it's always your attitude, you know, why should I bring mine in. But how do you actually then overcome the fear of the unknown? Because ultimately, that is what paralyzes most people, personally and professionally.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Yeah, I think the—I think the operative word and all that is fear. And one of the things that I realized early and I'm just super fortunate to realized early, is that courage is something that you can actually develop. Courage is kind of like a muscle. And I realized that early for a couple of reasons. One, because there are many, just many situations where I was just treated badly. And the fact that I had to get back up and go back to that school, back to the classroom, you know, back with people who, you know, were doing ugly things to me. Well, you have to have courage to be able to do that, right? Otherwise, you walk around with your head between your legs. And then I found that when you acted with courage, people liked to follow people who seem courageous. And it was also part and parcel, therefore, to the whole leadership thing. So I said, Alright, I need to figure out how to be of have courage. And so I just made a pact with myself that I am going to step up first. So when things happen, okay, we need people to do this. Alright, me, right? I would just force myself to Okay, me. And it just became this thing where all right, I just have to do it. And if I do it often enough, what happens is, you develop courage. It's now I think, one of my superpowers. It's because I do have the courage, the courage to stand up, I have the courage to speak, I have the courage—and I—and that's feedback I get whether it's in the boardroom or whatever. People actually compliment the fact that I show courage. So it's fear that holds us back. And when you see people who are courageous, just know, they developed it, human beings are not born courageous, mother nature makes sure of that. Because we can't protect ourselves as animals. So therefore, we are flight animals fear, flight, fear, flight. So the fact that you're afraid and don't do is absolutely normal. The key is, though, you need to develop the muscle to overcome it. And it's called courage. And the good news is, you can develop it. People of courage that you see, they all developed it. Nobody was born with it. So work on work on that.

Alan Fleischmann 

I love that, you know, there's this great Nelson Mandela quote, you know, fearsi is—what is it? Courage is not the absence of fear, it's the triumph over it.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Yeah.

Alan Fleischmann 

And, and I love that quote, and that's the muscle you've been developing. It is probably the most important thing. And when I think of you and your journey in the book, that ability to say, Okay, I'm going to overcome that, you know, and the way you've lived your life. And to know that everyone around you is afraid too. But know that they can't show it. Because ultimately, we need to inspire people to move and move forward. It doesn't mean there's no fear there, you know, but that's a very powerful thing. Because, you know, the, in the last few minutes, I'd love you to talk about something which I had heard about forever, but somehow until your book, I didn't really fully understand it. And that's what we know the imposter syndrome. You know, they go, they go hand in hand here, which is this idea where some people say, Well, that's not for me. And they talk themselves out of things, or that I don't fit here. You know, and you know, and I'm not meant to be that. And talk about that, if you can, for the last couple minutes, because I think that goes right into the idea of building that muscle of fear.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Yes, absolutely. Because I've suffered from imposter syndrome my whole life. I still do at times, which is ridiculous. But I do. And in writing the book, I actually did more research on it. And it turns out that most people suffer from imposter syndrome at some point or another. Now, first of all, let me just back up. So what is it? You talked about it Alan, but let me just define it again. Imposter syndrome is that little voice, it's that little voice that you hear that tells you whenever you're getting ready to consider a new job, step into a room, go to speak, in front of a group. Whatever it happens to be. It usually happens when you are being put to the test, right? That little voice that comes and tells you, You're not as good as they think you are. Right? What's gonna happen when they figure that out, right? What makes you think you can go toe to toe with all these people in the room? You're not gonna say anything brilliant or smart. I mean, this voice is basically eating away at your confidence, and it's reminding you of all their fears and doubts and everything else, right? That little voice is right there. That's called imposter syndrome. So most people have it. Women more so than men, but women of color actually suffer from it the most. Now, in doing the research, I developed my own theory. So I believe that it's environmental. Because if everybody has it, then it certainly didn't come from me. It comes from the environment. And I think it's because we live in such a judgmental world. So what does that tell you? If it's in the environment, and it's not you, this voice, it's not real. It's kind of like television. Sounds real, looks real, even feels real. You get scared, you get excited, right? That's what this little voices, sounds, feels, right? All that kind of stuff. It's not real. So first thing to tell yourself, when you're starting to hear it is just remind yourself, this isn't real, right? This is just in the air. It's just because it's—just talk to yourself through it. It's not real. If that doesn't help you get through it, then the next thing to do is to remember that when somebody actually offers you a job, when they invite you into the room, when they ask you, whatever it is, they're doing that you're thinking, oh my god, I'm not ready, I can't really do it, I'm not going to be good enough. Remember, they would only ask you if they believed you could do it. So if you don't believe yourself, believe them. All right. And if that doesn't work to get over the whole imposter syndrome, then fake it. Fake it. Act like you know what you're doing? Because eventually you will, you always do.

Alan Fleischmann 

I love that. And I also love the fact that you raised your hand through your whole career, I'll take it on. And you overcome the fear by doing it, you build the muscle of courage, but the imposter part is, you fake it. In other words, figure it out, ask the questions, if you need to, if you don't have the answers, but raise your hand and say, I can do this, you know, don't let other people say, I'll raise mine. And you know, I advise, you know, CEOs, as you know. And you know, and I often think one of the qualities of what we do every day is we raise our hand. And I always encourage people, raise your hand. It's a lonely world, if you don't, and it's a lonely a world of other people raising and you watching them succeed, because they didn't wondering, why didn't I? You know, but I thought that was one of the most powerful parts of your book, you know, is is, again, there's just this—the humility of understanding that all the things you question are not symptomatic of you. They're, you know, it's other people are feeling it too. And even the people that you so called think are ambitious or successful, are getting ahead in the world, you're imagining that they're doing it because somehow they have a charm, they have more luck, that things are happening for them that frankly, you wouldn't have. But that's because you're dealing with that voice. And it's your turn now to actually overcome that voice. I think that is such a powerful thing. Shellye, you are such a amazing person. I know you as a person and a friend. But you are an amazing role model and what you do every day, because you're willing to challenge people and have them ask those questions, even if they don't have the answers. And let them know that they're—that everybody has a purpose. And it may be many purposes, right? But the idea is that, you know, don't hesitate to just say, I can do this. And that muscle for courage and a muscle for excellence can be born. So

Shellye Archambaeu 

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And also remember, you don't have to do anything yourself. Nobody who has done anything of significance has done it all by themselves. So get help along the way. Every chance you get.

Alan Fleischmann 

And people want to help people.

Shellye Archambaeu 

Yeah, that's been my experience.

Alan Fleischmann 

Well, Shellye, thank you, you know, you've been listening to leadership matters on Sirius XM, I'm your host, Alan Fleischman. This is one of those special conversations that I wish I could go on and on because there's so much in your book, Unapologetically Ambitious, you can get it on Amazon, you can get it on Kindle. You can—You're the one that does the Audible.  You get to hear Shellye's voice. And I would say, you know, get all the above, but to listen to you talking is probably the most powerful way for people to hear from your book. And then you've got this incredible thing going on LinkedIn that people can come to you. And I would encourage that as well. But Shellye, thank you for—as you soar and build and rebuild and reaffirm that you look out for others along the way and your book is a great way to do it. So I'm looking forward to more time with you on this show. And learning more from you in all the ways in which you share your wisdom, the book included. Thank you so much.

Shellye Archambaeu 

That's rightThank you again for having me, Alan. I've enjoyed it.